Championship v Notts 26-29 September 2023

[Sillypoint]

Kent on 99....we are on 98!

All to play for.... Will weather intervene, will our top order finally get first innings runs, will Murts play or Rojo return, will Yadav become an all rounder, will Higgins recover from his side strain.....tune in to find out

[Jonathan Winsky]

It goes without saying that Middlesex could do with recording as many bonus points as possible from this match in case our result proves to be identical to Kent’s result v Lancashire at Canterbury and Kent achieve lots of bonus points themselves.

In our pursuit of bonus points, I feel very much inclined to ask our batters to improve their output, although I could request this of our seam bowlers too, as they haven’t been particularly prolific in our three most recent matches, even though the records show that we didn’t drop any bowling points in that time.

I can see Tim Murtagh retaining his place after taking eight wickets v Warwickshire at Lord’s. It is always great when a player comes in, does well, and gives Richard Johnson a rare selection headache. I have no idea of the likelihood of Toby Roland-Jones returning.

It will be interesting to see whether we heed the suggestions of those advocating that we bring in batters with experience (e.g. Stevie Eskinazi, or to a lesser extent, Max Holden or Robbie White), or whether we stick with Jack Davies and Joe Cracknell.

In reverse chronological order, Kent’s last seven first innings scores have been 235, 446, 316, 171, 621, 301 and 278, so you know what, maybe we should forget about getting into a batting points contest with Kent and simply beat Nottinghamshire! It is a testament to our difficulties in the batting department that Kent’s 235 v Somerset at Taunton today, despite not earning them any batting points, compares favourably with our first innings totals. It was in jest that I wrote that we should focus on beating Notts and forget about achieving batting points, as there is generally a correlation between a team’s tally of bonus points in a match and their position in the match, meaning that a lack of bonus points generally results in an impaired chance of winning or avoiding defeat.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

The 14 usual suspects named for the decider at The Bridge tomorrow.

[Erskine]

For the final push i would go with experience and leave out Cracknell Davies and Yadav as none of them performed well in the last match but will have to watch the over rate
I notice Surrey who play four seamers do not have a problem with the over rate so nor should we

[wembleylion]

I would not expect any sensible selection decisions from the current management, I fear the usual failures will be chosen.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

We don't have any problem with the bowling rate and as for failures, apart from a few ALL would admit to having had a failed season,especially the senior batters, Rocky, Eski, and Max. We didn't sign a potential match-winning bowler in Jayant to leave him out for the most important game of the season. Toby will definitely play, unsure who he will replace.

[John Assirati]

We don't have any problem with the bowling rate
Yet we had a point deducted for a slow over rate in the match against Somerset at Lord's on 18 May (the only county in division 1 to have such a deduction). Maybe it's not a problem now but let's hope we aren't relegated by a point.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Well, I've explained the circumstances surrounding that on numerous occasions, not entirely our bowler's fault, and as it happened over four months ago, I think it fair to 'the problem has been sorted out. Far more serious things to worry about than that, like two batting points out of a possible sixty-five if you really want something to moan about, suggest you pick on the batters rather than our bowlers.

[John Assirati]

Well, I've explained the circumstances surrounding that on numerous occasions, not entirely our bowler's fault, and as it happened over four months ago, I think it fair to 'the problem has been sorted out. Far more serious things to worry about than that, like two batting points out of a possible sixty-five if you really want something to moan about, suggest you pick on the batters rather than our bowlers.

I wasn't blaming the bowlers, the captain is responsible for over management.

[Sillypoint]

I agree. Handscombe was very good at keeping the energy up and the field moving. They are big aimless periods and it's all quite ponderous with TRJ. The weird thing being he is so formulaic that it shouldn't take very long at all.

With weather involved this week I think it's a fair shout to wonder if they'll do something daft and not get a chance to rectify it! We've seen plenty of surreal stuff this summer....

I hope Yadav is a match winning bowler but think it was a duff decision to grab a spinner for late September....although it might come in handy if it becomes a shootout

Robson, Stoneman, Eski, Holden, Higgins, Simmo, JDC, Yadav, TRJ, Bamber, Murtagh.....

[Jonathan Winsky]

The inclusion in the squad of Stevie Eskinazi and Max Holden suggests that Middlesex are at least considering bringing them in, although I would be surprised if we do. Mind you, whatever happens with our line-up is bound to be a surprise, as a return for Toby Roland-Jones could result in Tim Murtagh or Tom Helm losing their places despite coming out of the match v Warwickshire at Lord’s with credit, or it could result in Ethan Bamber missing out despite being our top wicket-taker in the County Championship this season. I cannot see Jayant Yadav ending up playing just two of the four matches for which he was signed, although you never know.

If we get relegated, then the loss of one point v Somerset at Lord’s would certainly be one factor, as would the fact that scoring one more run or conceding one fewer run v Northamptonshire at Merchant Taylors’ school would have earned us eight more points (although scoring one fewer run or conceding one more run would have earned us five fewer points). If I was to blame a failure on just one factor, that would require me to break the habit of a lifetime, as believe this to be too simplistic, although I am willing to break this habit by blaming the fact we are about to either just about survive or be relegated on our lack of batting points on the basis that more batting points would have bound to have also translated into draws being converted into wins, and defeats being converted into draws or maybe even wins. Had we scored 75 more first innings runs v Somerset at Lord’s, we would have achieved a batting point and, one way or another (i.e. regardless of whether or not we followed-on), would have forced Somerset to bat a second time, which may not actually had resulted in us avoiding defeat, but it would have surely given us an opportunity to avoid a points deduction, in which scenario we would have been at least two points better off.

Nottinghamshire have name a 13-man squad for this match (https://www.trentbridge.co.uk/news/2023/september/moores-squad-stronger-for-top-flight-exposure.html) consisting of Jake Ball, Matthew Carton, Joe Clarke, Asitha Fernando, Haseeb Hameed, Calvin Harrison, Brett Hutton, Lyndon James, Matthew Montgomery, Tom Moores, Steven Mullaney, Dane Paterson and Ben Slater.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

The sun is out at Trent Bridge and drying up is carrying on, A further inspection is due at 2 pm and it's hopeful that play will be possible soon after.At Canterbury, Lancashire chose to bat first on a worn pitch and are 106-4 at lunch.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Play is due to start at 3pm at Trent Bridge. Middlesex won the toss and bat 42 overs left in the day, Eski, Max, and Toby replace Crackers, Jack, and Tim.

[Paul W]

I'm not particularly religious, but I hope to God we know what we are doing in opting to bat first.

I don't want us 100-5 or 6 after 30 overs.

[Sillypoint]

Dropping a bloke who got eight wickets. They be must preplanned. That's daft

[Erskine]

Agree crazy leaving out Murts and at last recognise that Davies and Cracknell are not red ball players

[wembleylion]

...at last recognise that Davies and Cracknell are not red ball players

Yes at last, too late unfortunately, damage already done.

[Sillypoint]

70/3 at tea. Lucky to not be more. Feels a daft decision to not bowl first on a sweaty pitch and grab bonus points up front. Murts on that could've been deadly.

Massive session before close tonight. Kent should have Lancs all out soon.

[Paul W]

Well, that went better than I dared hope. May even get some batting points. Eski lucky to be dropped early on, otherwise it would have been 4 down before we got to 100. Eski, or a replacement, able to bat at some point tomorrow.

[Sillypoint]

Brilliant again from Higgins. 160/3 in the end at a good pace. Eski went off after being hit so might get replaced! Have to see how much disruption created by weather and if things get tight whether they'll agree to setup a chase.

Kent batting tomorrow....

[Jonathan Winsky]

Middlesex have given themselves a good base to, unbelievably, achieve some batting points, although we will have to see how tomorrow goes. Dare I say, maybe we will even bat until the 110th over (the longest we have batted in the first innings this season has been 85.1 overs), in which case we could achieve four or five points going at our current run rate. No, that is just being greedy. And unrealistic.

Hopefully Stevie Eskinazi either will be passed fit to continue in the match AND be able to contribute, or will be deemed unfit to enable us to bring in a substitute. What we don’t want is for Eski to be deemed fit enough to continue, but not actually be able to contribute. Surely, it would be either Jack Davies or Joe Cracknell who would come in. I would prefer Davies considering he is a bit more experienced and his best County Championship score this season (65*) is double Cracknell’s best (33), although Cracknell would arguably be more like-for-like considering both Cracknell and Eski have batted at four in recent weeks.

As much as I feel that Cracknell and Davies have potential and as little as Eski and Max Holden have done in this competition this season, I was glad that we entered what is a vital match with experienced players. However, we did the opposite in the bowling department by not retaining Tim Murtagh in the side. Then again, maybe it would have been a bit reactive had Murtagh retained his place, as I would have thought that it was intended that he would play v Warwickshire at Lord’s but would not be in consideration for this match. Thankfully, Toby Roland-Jones has done more than enough in his career to ensure that replacing Murtagh with TRJ cannot be considered to be a brain drain.

Weather permitting, at least some of tomorrow and/or Thursday will see Middlesex and Kent’s first innings overlapping. Hopefully this passage will end when Kent are all out rather than ourselves.

[Paul W]

Jonathan-

When you said Cracknell would be more of a like for like replacement for Eskinazi, I thought you were going to add- 'because neither has scored a championship 50 this season'.

:D

[Sillypoint]

Murts said he was ready to play in his interview at close at Lords. I think they should've picked the form guy. It's not like they had much to do in Warks second innings. Hopefully Rojo steps up as he's been a bit off after his mid season break. He said he picked up a virus so hopefully that's cleared up.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

A satisfactory first day in which neither Kent nor ourselves gained a significant advantage over one another. We made good progress on a shortened day and retained the prospect of precious batting points. Kent, although securing the inevitable bowling points face a sizable total and possibly difficult batting conditions in the morning. Without sounding too much like Kevin Hand I remain optimistic as to our chances of survival. Would I be right in assuming a concussion substitute for Eski could not bat in the first innings?

[Paul W]

A concussion substitute can take over the moment someone is ruled out of the game- so Cracknell, or Davies could come in next if Eskinazi is ruled out.

Simpson came in next simply because he was already padded up and prepared to be next man in.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

A concussion substitute can take over the moment someone is ruled out of the game- so Cracknell, or Davies could come in next if Eskinazi is ruled out.

Simpson came in next simply because he was already padded up and prepared to be next man in.

On reading the regulations,I agree the sub. can bat but only when the concussed batter has been confirmed as unable to continue. As I understand it Eski remains retired not out and has not yet been assessed as being entitled to a substitute. Crackers or Jack would certainly not have been allowed to come out and bat as soon as Eski retired.

[Paul W]

Regarding the business of when you can, or cannot substitute players, there is a nasty rumour going around that Zak Crawley, who played for England yesterday, might be allowed to play for Kent for the last three days of their match against Lancashire.

I guess we will find out if the rumour is true in a few hours.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Heartiest congratulations to Ryan Higgins on his maiden first-class hundred for Middlesex. His contribution this season has been outstanding and without it, our fate would haveen sealed some time ago. Keep going Higgo, and well done Jay on reaching your half-century

[Paul W]

366 all out.

We now need to hope Lancashire can dismiss Kent for349, or less. At 186-3 not looking good.

[Erskine]

All Kent need to do is score 120 off 50 overs with 7 wickets in hand and as seems likely win the match and all over for us
We should never have lost nine wickets on the last day against Warwickshire on an easy playing wicket and if we had batted another ten minutes would have secured a draw

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Not looking good at the moment for our survival in Division One. We will hopefully gain 6 bonus points, but if Kent reaches 350 they will too, leaving them still a point ahead of us, and needing only to match the final result of our match to escape the drop, Come on you Lankies!!!!!

[Erskine]

And as I feared that one point deduction for slow over rate could get us relegated . Sounds familiar !

[Paul W]

It seems Zak Crawley has gone down with a virus, therefore will not be subbed in to the Kent match.

Not that they're going to need him, as they're doing fine without him.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

So now we know,unless we win and Kent does not, or Kent loses and we draw we are down.

[Paul W]

So now we know,unless we win and Kent does not, or Kent loses and we draw we are down.

In fact, Kent have closed day two on 345-4, so strictly speaking need another five runs (which they will obviously get).

To be honest, if, as looks likely, we get relegated, there can be no complaints.

No burning feeling of injustice like there was with Arrowgate.

We just aren't good enough to survive at this level.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Pedantic till the last PW,knew I could rely on you for nit-picking. I would say 'Probably' rather than 'likely'.We'll fight to the finish and 'tis not over till the fat lady sings her last note, Other cliches are available. In the meantime keep praying.

[Paul W]

To be honest, it's because you always make a point if ever anything I ever post is 99% rather than 100% accurate- so they still need 5 runs.

:D

[adelaide]

I know the over rate no longer matters (unless Kent get a deduction themselves!) but I think one incident typified our doziness. Yadav to bowl to Clarke. Physio runs on to treat Slater for 2-3 minutes. Once the physio goes off we start messing about with the field. It's like everything has to be done in series rather than in parallel. As for Yadav repeatedly bowling no-balls...

Our only hope would be the pitch taking massive spin on the last day, I think. But we have to bowl them out first then knock up some quick runs. Hmm...

Great knock by Higgins; shame about the brain fade at the end. We looked good for 400 before Yadav got out, then it all rather subsided.

To be honest, there are three teams who don't deserve to stay up but one (probably not us) will.

[Jonathan Winsky]

As Kent will almost certainly equal - and will surely exceed - Middlesex’s tally of bonus points in the two teams’ respective matches, all Middlesex can do is attempt to beat Nottinghamshire.

We have put ourselves in a good position to keep our side of the bargain by putting 366 runs on the board (thereby boosting our tally of batting points by 150% compared to the start of the match) and taking two wickets before the close. Hopefully, we will ultimately have lots of runs to defend bowling last. Yes, I am going to do what I always do when we bat first and write that I hope that (barring Notts changing the complexion of my thinking by achieving a large first innings lead) batting will be difficult in the fourth innings.

Well done to Ryan Higgins on scoring a first first-class century in his Middlesex career and by any Middlesex player this season by anyone other than Sam Robson (although, Higgo had previously scored six centuries for Gloucestershire). Well done, too, to Stevie Eskinazi and Jayant Yadav on their fifties.

When we were on 349-6, I had my eyes on more than three batting points. Events at Canterbury probably mean that further bonus points would make little difference, although it is still possible that we could be rueful of failing to pass 400 if it ends up being the case that a win would keep us up and this is a tight match.

If Lancashire can bat and bowl well over the last two days of their match v Kent, maybe the result will be something other than a Kent win.

Our achievement of three batting points has done nothing to alter my view that if we get relegated, the cause I would primarily blame would be our lack of batting points.

[Paul W]

Just had a look at our batting averages. I'll post the link when the match has finished.

After todays innings, Ryan Higgins now has 940 first class runs this season, so he does have a chance of getting to 1,000 in his last innings.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

To be honest, it's because you always make a point if ever anything I ever post is 99% rather than 100% accurate- so they still need 5 runs.

:DI can assure you PW if I wasted my time correcting you every time you got it wrong,I'd have no time to post anything else.They only need five runs. so long as we get two more bowling points, Currently Kent 6 points, Middlesex 4.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Am I the only one who thinks Kevin Hand has totally misread the situation when he alludes to us going to The Notts, captain, and negotiating a run chase tomorrow afternoon? Surely Mulaney needs to do nothing but try and match or even pass our total, and then wait to see if we can get in a position to set a target which we obviously need to do however generous that may be, The onus lies entirely with Middlesex to extract themselves from what is becoming an increasingly desperate position.

[Andrew Fraser]

I am in full agreement that Middlesex (and other County Clubs) should not resort to match fixing whatever the situation. My saddest experience at Lord's was when when Middlesex "won" to Championship in 2016 having not attempted to win by normal cricketing means, but being wholly reliant on Yorkshire giving away ludicrously cheap runs (with their coach, 'Dizzy' Gillespie, running around the boundary to return the endless 4s and 6s).
That Yorkshire's batting was denuded by the absence of Root and Bairstow - 'rested' by England despite there being no international cricket for a couple of months - was another travesty. Given that the match was a Championship decider it was a further demonstration of how devalued the Championship has been devalued (and subsequent events suggest keeping Bairstow off the Golf Course might be smart thinking !).

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Disagree absolutely.Had there not been a winner in that match, neither side would have been champions, and the title would have gone to Somerset.It was essential that by any means possible a definite result needed to be achieved and both sides ensured it would happen, giving us an enthralling and exciting day's cricket that will live long in the memory, Sometimes it's necessary to resort to unorthodox methods to reach the right conclusion, this was certainly one of them.

[Erskine]

Agree it was a memorable days cricket. As for this match it seems a major mistake in not selecting an in form Murts instead of Toby or Helm
It seems at times selection is made to keep everyone happy instead of best team to win a match

[MIDDLE EXILE]

It's called rotation, is Higgo not fit to bowl?

[adelaide]

Disagree absolutely.Had there not been a winner in that match, neither side would have been champions, and the title would have gone to Somerset.It was essential that by any means possible a definite result needed to be achieved and both sides ensured it would happen, giving us an enthralling and exciting day's cricket that will live long in the memory, Sometimes it's necessary to resort to unorthodox methods to reach the right conclusion, this was certainly one of them.

"Match fixing" is something different. "Setting up a result" is what happened and nobody knew which team would come out on top.

There was a story that neither county wanted Somerset to be champions because of the Ciderabad wickets they had used to climb from relegation trouble to potential champions. Thus a positive result was set up. I'm not saying Somerset would have been totally undeserving champs - they had won at Headingley the previous week after all - but there was a perception that they had gone too far.

There were several ironies in all this. First, if the Yorkshire tail had not managed the extra batting point (the outcome that was natural to hope for), I don't think Yorkshire would have had any incentive to set up a result. Secondly, Taunton bit Somerset in the rear in a way as they won the match very early. If their result had been in doubt in mid afternoon on day 4 history could have been very different.

Tim Bresnan was superb in that Yorkshire first innings, wasn't he?

[Paul W]

All impartial commentators agreed it was fair.

What could be more natural than wanting to win the County Championship.

No-one wants to settle for second, or third place if they can win the championship, so it effectively became a cup final.

Somerset would have done exactly the same thing, and they know they would. Earlier in the season they had even changed pitches an hour before the start when they realised we had no Tim Murtagh.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I am constantly amazed at the number of people I meet at the cricket who have absolutely no idea whatsoever what's going on. Some even get on social media forums.

[wembleylion]

Kevin still suggesting a deal with Mullaney, is he serious?

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Butch is trying to explain to Kookie Kevin, exactly what's going on, but he's not getting through. Hilarious!

[adelaide]

Butch is trying to explain to Kookie Kevin, exactly what's going on, but he's not getting through. Hilarious!

It's not totally insane. If nothing much depended on it, declaring behind in exchange for a run chase could have made more sense than getting a minimal lead, which would make it hard for anyone to force a result.

But something does depend upon it. So Mullaney knows Middlesex must (if not bowled out) set a fairly low tempting target tomorrow. It would also be pretty outrageous (and not just in Kentish eyes) if his early declaration had led to Middlesex winning the match.

Higgins obviously not fit to bowl. Yadav was preferred as a bowler for much of the innings to De Caires but so far he is not obviously better. Perhaps he will prove me wrong tomorrow and have eight batsmen caught (off no-balls).

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Off for the day at TB and OT, but the door still remains slightly ajar. Admittedly a long shot but stranger things have happened, We live in hope, We're dealing in realities Ade, not hypotheses. You appear to be contradicting yourself.

[Sillypoint]

Agree it was a memorable days cricket. As for this match it seems a major mistake in not selecting an in form Murts instead of Toby or Helm
It seems at times selection is made to keep everyone happy instead of best team to win a match

I agree with this sentiment. It feels WAY to preplanned because Hand was mentioning this exact situation during the Kent commentary.... Murts back for finale at Lords. He kept on saying he was ready to go.... Its happens in other areas like a guy in here said about Thilan. Literally a ghost this season.

[Sillypoint]

I don't know how we get a result in the match. The pitch is flat. I can't see it spinning enough for a Yadav to nobble a run chase. How much can we actually set and by when?

[Erskine]

Can not see Yadav bowling them out and in the last two games DeCaries seems a better bowler and does not bowl no balls
If we had just batted for another ten minutes against Warwickshire looks like a draw would have been enough

[Paul W]

I agree with this sentiment. It feels WAY to preplanned because Hand was mentioning this exact situation during the Kent commentary.... Murts back for finale at Lords. He kept on saying he was ready to go.... Its happens in other areas like a guy in here said about Thilan. Literally a ghost this season.

Last week at Lord's was perfect conditions for Tim Murtagh, so a logical 'horses for courses' selection.

It doesn't follow he would have repeated that success this week at Trent Bridge.

[Jonathan Winsky]

I have a good feeling that Lancashire can prevent Kent from winning their match. However, I feel less confident that Middlesex can beat Nottinghamshire without some sort of agreement between Toby Roland-Jones and Steven Mullaney, or that there will even be such an agreement.

It is never ideal to rely on opponents being consciously or subconsciously in a generous mood in the sense of not playing to their full potential or of being willing to agree to ensure that there will be a result, and it is never ideal to rely on rivals’ opponents essentially doing the complete opposite to that (i.e. giving one’s rivals a tough match and not being willing to enter into deals). However, that is what happens when you get to the last round of matches with your fate unsealed. We entered this round hopeful that Notts would be off-colour and that Lancashire would play at maximum capability. Kent entered this round hopeful that Lancs would be off-colour and that Notts would play at maximum capability.

Unless Mullaney is happy to agree to something, I imagine that we will either attempt to set Notts something or be all out.

If I was a Somerset supporter, I would have been absolutely gutted when the chances of the Middlesex v Yorkshire match at Lord’s in 2016 being a draw suddenly went from being roughly 100% to roughly 0%. I attended all of that match, and I don’t recall the thought occurring to me that maybe the captains could try to set something up, although in hindsight, I don’t think there was much prospect of the two teams settling for a draw that would have suited neither side. I have long had a soft spot for Somerset considering both teams had a messageboard hosted by Sportnetwork (I think that Grockles is still hosted there), so I would have preferred them rather than Yorkshire to have won the title, all the more so considering that a win for Yorkshire would have meant that I would have simultaneously witnessed Middlesex’s title hopes ending and the many people at Lord’s of a Yorkshire persuasion (and Yorkshire had many supporters there) being jubilant at a title win. I wasn’t entirely comfortable with the way the result was contrived, but it was neither the first nor the last such instance in County Championship history.

[Sillypoint]

Last week at Lord's was perfect conditions for Tim Murtagh, so a logical 'horses for courses' selection.

It doesn't follow he would have repeated that success this week at Trent Bridge.

Don't deny that but how did they think they knew the conditions weeks in advance. Feels like they make their choices way before they actually see

[Sillypoint]

Can not see Yadav bowling them out and in the last two games DeCaries seems a better bowler and does not bowl no balls
If we had just batted for another ten minutes against Warwickshire looks like a draw would have been enough

Or the match they should've won at MTS but went strangely passive until it was too late

[adelaide]

Off for the day at TB and OT, but the door still remains slightly ajar. Admittedly a long shot but stranger things have happened, We live in hope, We're dealing in realities Ade, not hypotheses. You appear to be contradicting yourself.

I presume I am meant to be Ade.

We have no alternative but to set a target. I would be amazed though if Notts were to gift us runs in order to set a target earlier in the day, just as I would have been amazed if Notts had declared some way behind. We are over a barrel and all Notts have to do is wait and then take advantage, if they so wish. That's the unfortunate reality. Unlike Yorkshire, they would not have to keep going if they lost quick wickets either. Which I think was the really unusual point about the contrived result in 2016.

[Paul W]

And, in this instance, as there is nothing in it for Notts, they have to do right by Kent, and not just chuck it away to help us out.

We'll just have to hope (real straw clutching) that we can bowl Notts out in about 45-50 overs having set them whatever we've managed to get in the first 50 or so overs today.

We could well end up losing- but that is fair enough, because we've just got to declare (unless bowled out chasing quick runs) and hope for the best.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

You've got it Ade, exactly right, The shame is that some cannot grasp that simple concept including some who'd like to kid us they understand what's going on.

[Paul W]

Who do you have in mind when you say some people would like to kid us they understand what is going on?

[adelaide]

Who do you have in mind when you say some people would like to kid us they understand what is going on?

Mr Hand might be a prime candidate, based on his thinking Notts would be up for a deal.

Meanwhile, Eski is run out because the ball hit Robbo. That just about sums up this season.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Who do you have in mind when you say some people would like to kid us they understand what is going on?

But that would be discourteous PW, surely you'd not want me to embarrass anybody. I think we all know 'The Cricket Bluffers' they're all around us, in the com.box, on social networks, in the media, I believe I've even spotted one or two notorious know-nothings in this very place.

[Paul W]

But that would be discourteous PW, surely you'd not want me to embarrass anybody. I think we all know 'The Cricket Bluffers' they're all around us, in the com.box, on social networks, in the media, I believe I've even spotted one or two notorious know-nothings in this very place.

You see, you're always very rude to people you consider to be ill informed, or not as knowledgeable as yourself. I see you got yourself embroiled in an argument elsewhere last night, putting down someone you didn't agree with, and they stood up for themselves very well.

But whenever you get something wrong, people just correct you, without needing to resort to insults.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

[QUOTE=adelaide;103255]Mr Hand might be a prime candidate, based on his thinking Notts would be up for a deal.

I think someone has had a serious talk with dear old Kev, as he seems to have changed his tune and grasped the nettle. He's with us on the carrot-dangling route now, well almost!

[wembleylion]

Not sure we have any carrots to dangle.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

You see, you're always very rude to people you consider to be ill informed, or not as knowledgeable as yourself. I see you got yourself embroiled in an argument elsewhere last night, putting down someone you didn't agree with, and they stood up for themselves very well.

But whenever you get something wrong, people just correct you, without needing to resort to insults.

Er,no.I think you need to reread that exchange,I was the one being insulted and had to put the man in his place, he's given up now. I do get the impression you're trying to be provocative Chunky, not a good idea and no chance of me rising to it. I'd advise you to stop now before you get warned No one's interested in your personal vendetta.

[Sillypoint]

Waldorf and Statler at it again.... Go get a room. Let's talk about the match

[Sillypoint]

Carrots

[MIDDLE EXILE]

If only Mr Silly!

[Sillypoint]

Pretty bad state of affairs at lunch. Houdini is massaging the fat lady before her concert....

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Pretty bad state of affairs at lunch. Houdini is massaging the fat lady before her concert....

I think we've done certainly as well as could be expected this morning,unfortunately, things not going so well at Canterbury, so all our efforts are likely to be in vain, in the meantime, keep fighting lads.

[Paul W]

Lancashire are the equivalent of 59-5 at lunch- so Kent may well win.

https://live.nvplay.com/ecb/?tab=m_scorecard#m025f3131-d897-44e0-9f0e-0fa83970e030

[Sillypoint]

How do you delete posts twice?

[Sillypoint]

207 to win off 58 overs. Ton for Robbo with three boundaries. Nobody really kicked into high gear...

Kent look good to chase...

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Generous as we expected, but needs must,sadly our fate is not in our own hands.

[Sillypoint]

Shocking start with the ball. Total disdain for our seamers....

[Paul W]

Jayant Yadav must have bowled more no balls in one match than Phil Edmonds and John Emburey did in both their careers combined.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Whilst we seek the intervention of a thaumaturgist at Trent Bridge and Kevin Hand lashes on the jam and cream to his last scone of the summer, Lancashire are almost safe from defeat at Canter's. Notts have eaten all the carrots and 'tis now just that sword of Damocles that dangles above our heads.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Kent draw,

[Sillypoint]

Six down.... No way

[Paul W]

NOW I'm starting to get interested....

[Sillypoint]

Gosh. They need to get on with it too get extra overs. Too much chatting going on

[Erskine]

Why has Josh been given only 4 overs as he,does take wickets

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Why has Josh been given only 4 overs as he,does take wickets

Robbo's the better option. turning it away from the right-handers and he's got three out so far.Kev talking more nonsense, saying they might not get 13 more off 8 overs.

[Sillypoint]

Yadav hasn't done the biz at all here. Come on robbo...

[Erskine]

I meant Josh for Yadav not Robbo

[Sillypoint]

I meant Josh for Yadav not Robbo

I agree. Should've happened. Was just symbolic that our overseas bought in to win matches was outbowled by the opening bat....

Put up a great fight. Nice to see the coaches waiting right at the front to shake hands with the team walking off.... Coleman, Murts, Salisbury, and Coutts.

Guess Johnson was putting the kettle on and packing up the whiteboard. That's the sort of thing you want from a head coach....

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

An heroic attempt but, in the end, we paid the price of most of our earlier matches, not least the failure to accumulate batting points.

I'm afraid that we really didn't deserve to stay in the 1st division for the moment - but let's hope we can get our act together through the winter and next year.

[Paul W]

Well, I don't feel quite as down as I thought I would.

Being relegated is fair enough, in the sense that it was obvious throughout the season that we were some way short of a side capable of living in Division 1.

I'm far from certain that we'll bounce straight back up again.

Serious questions need to be asked- such as would player X get in to another Division 1 side (I'm not saying 'Would they get in to the Surrey side?', but would they be worth consideration to get in, say the Notts, or Warwickshire side?) If the answer is 'NO' and we're serious about being a Division 1 side they need to be replaced.

Harsh- but being nice and loyal gets you relegated.

[Sillypoint]

Need to take the same approach across the club. Telling members it's all good we are well below the salary cap doesn't sound great when you've been overplaying kids far beyond their development and got relegated

[Paul W]

Josh de Caires is our most improved player this season.

Sillypoint- Didn't you post a few weeks ago that Mike Atherton said J de C had been receiving tuition from Jeetan Patel- in which case maybe he is the one who deserves the credit for his advancement- rather than anything our coaching staff have done.

We obviously don't prepare and bring players on as well as other counties.

Nick Gubbins finishes the championship season with an average of 46.14 for Hants. Would he have done that if he was still with us?

Our averages-

https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/tournament/averages-batting-bowling-by-team/county-championship-division-one-2023-15156?team=1241

[adelaide]

Need to take the same approach across the club. Telling members it's all good we are well below the salary cap doesn't sound great when you've been overplaying kids far beyond their development and got relegated

It doesn't sound great but it sounds better than "we spent up to the cap even though we couldn't afford it and we are going bust so we are out of the CC altogether". Salary caps are just that - caps - not an instruction to spend to that level.

[Pindarus]

The batting has been very poor across all formats. The question is why. Stoneman Robson Eskinazi Malan Holden and Simpson are all experienced cricketers and on paper better than many other teams. It all kicked off with the notorious 0 for 4 scoreline and never recovered

[Paul W]

I've had another look at the batting averages- and I've concentrated solely on those who batted at 3, 4 and 5.

I've left Ryan Higgins out, because he batted at 7 for all but the last 2 games when he moved up to 5.

So I have combined the efforts of Holden, Davies, Eskinazi, Cracknell, Malan and White-

and I come up with 75 innings (5 not out so 70 completed innings) and just SIX 50's and NO 100's from those who occupied places 3-5 in the batting order all season.

That's 2 50's (top score 55) from Holden in 23 innings, 1 50 from Davies (HS 65*) in 9 completed innings + 1 not out=10 innings, Eskinazi (HS 58) 1 50 in 16 completed innings + 2 no= 18 innings
0 from Cracknell in 6 innings 2 50's from Malan (HS 66)in 15 completed innings + 1no=16 and 0 from White in 2 innings

That is utterly APPALLING by anyone's definition.

You won't win many matches if 3-5 contribute absolutely sod all.

[Jonathan Winsky]

Well done to Middlesex on running Nottinghamshire close. However, it is certainly not the comment I wished to be making this evening.

It is a shame that Sam Robson’s great all-round performance should come in circumstances such as this.

Hopefully, next season will see us bounce back up rather than continue to display the traits that caused us to be relegated.

[Sillypoint]

It doesn't sound great but it sounds better than "we spent up to the cap even though we couldn't afford it and we are going bust so we are out of the CC altogether". Salary caps are just that - caps - not an instruction to spend to that level.

This is very true. It's not a high point to aim for but I reckon we could've got a top batter or genuine strike quick for less than 54k for example.... Dunno why that number sounds familiar

[Sillypoint]

Josh de Caires is our most improved player this season.

Sillypoint- Didn't you post a few weeks ago that Mike Atherton said J de C had been receiving tuition from Jeetan Patel- in which case maybe he is the one who deserves the credit for his advancement- rather than anything our coaching staff have done.

We obviously don't prepare and bring players on as well as other counties

Indeed he's come out of nowhere. Will be interesting how he progresses next season when batters have had a chance to analyse. The surprise element has gone. I would assume we've had a strong hand in his development with Salisbury but do think he's in for a shout with England development if Patel has been helping out. Heard it on the comms I think

[Paul W]

This is very true. It's not a high point to aim for but I reckon we could've got a top batter or genuine strike quick for less than 54k for example.... Dunno why that number sounds familiar

Top players cost a lot more than that.

The one figure I do remember is from quite a few years ago was when it was stated Joe Denly was on 90k at Kent, and then he moved to us- presumably for the same, or even more.

I haven't got the time to go looking for the current salary cap- but it was already over 2 million several years ago- so probably something like 2.5 or even a little more now. So, if you spend up to 2.5 million and you have a staff of about 24 + overseas that come and go, your top 10 regular first teamers are probably on something in the region of 150k each (some less and maybe the vey best a bit more). Then you've got experienced, but not capped players (Martin Andersson type) who will be on less (maybe at a guess 70k) then the juniors who haven't much first team experience.

We must be way below the salary cap, because we don't have that many big named experienced players on the staff.

[Sillypoint]

I meant for September. Sorry! When it became clear we needed to upgrade quality instantly. Like throughout August when we knew.... Chased random players and got Yadav last minute

[Sillypoint]

Top players cost a lot more than that.

The one figure I do remember is from quite a few years ago was when it was stated Joe Denly was on 90k at Kent, and then he moved to us- presumably for the same, or even more.

I haven't got the time to go looking for the current salary cap- but it was already over 2 million several years ago- so probably something like 2.5 or even a little more now. So, if you spend up to 2.5 million and you have a staff of about 24 + overseas that come and go, your top 10 regular first teamers are probably on something in the region of 150k each (some less and maybe the vey best a bit more). Then you've got experienced, but not capped players (Martin Andersson type) who will be on less (maybe at a guess 70k) then the juniors who haven't much first team experience.

We must be way below the salary cap, because we don't have that many big named experienced players on the staff.

Do bonuses count as expect they'll get appearance and performance on top....