Championship v Essex 4-7 September 2023

[Paul W]

Starting the thread early, as the push for survival begins next week against Essex.

Our game starts a day later than others in this round, and this is the round our relegation rivals Kent sit out, so this is our chance to substantially increase our current three point lead over them.

I assume Essex will definitely want a result pitch, as they are second, and need the win to try to close the gap on leaders Surrey.

Therefore, will it be a bunsen to suit Simon Harmer? (not that he really needs one to perform his magic) and if it is, will Luke Hollman and Josh de Caires be as effective as Harmer and Critchley?

Unless there is a lot of rain, someone will take 16 points for a win. If it isn't us, the nightmare of taking just three bowling points from our game in hand must be a serious possibility.

Kent's final three games are home to Notts, away to Somerset, and finishing with home to Lancashire.

We seem to have the harder run in against Essex, then Lancashire away, followed by Warwickshire at Lord's, finishing with Notts away.

Our opponents are in 2nd, 7th, 4th and 6th at the moment. Kent's opponents are in 6th, 5th and 7th.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/table

It's fortunate there are ten teams playing fourteen matches. If the two divisions had nine teams each with two up, two down, we'd have a very hard job to finish in seventh place!

Battle!

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Essex will be very wary of preparing a result pitch after a similar move rebounded on them at the end of last season at Chelmsford. After bowling Lancashire out for 131 they themselves were dismissed for 107 and then reduced their opponents to 25-6 by the end of the first day. The pitch continued to deteriorate next day and after Lanky were out for 73,Essex collapsed to 59 all out and lost by 38 runs . The pitch was heavily criticised and Essex narrowly avoided being penalised. You can be sure The ECB match referee will be keeping a close eye on proceedings next week.

[adelaide]

Essex will want some batting points too.

I suppose preparing a bunsen would also make signing Yadav seem strange.

Paul - the real nightmare scenario is ending up with fewer than three points because of over rate in the first innings and the absence of a second Essex innings! An eternal optimist, me...

[Sillypoint]

Think they'll back Yadav, Porter, etc and Harmer to outbowl our lot in a straight contest..... Especially with our top order misfiring consistently. Be interesting if Eski and Holden can transition back into red ball especially with Max in final today so probably only a few sessions to get ready

[Sillypoint]

https://www.middlesexccc.com/news/2023/08/richard-johnson-reviews-one-day-cup-and-looks-ahead-to-crucial-last-month

Little bowl of nothing but seems to hint that Cracknell will come in for Malan?

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

https://www.middlesexccc.com/news/2023/08/richard-johnson-reviews-one-day-cup-and-looks-ahead-to-crucial-last-month

Little bowl of nothing but seems to hint that Cracknell will come in for Malan?


If true, at least it will save us a fortune ...

[MIDDLE EXILE]

It certainly is an option, but more likely in my opinion to come in for Eski, Davies, or even Max all of whom have had very disappointing red-ball seasons. Still talking to an overseas batter who may only be available for three games rather than four.

[Paul W]

At the moment- and i do stress it's at the moment this looks like the best weather forecast all season- with unbroken sun for all four days, and temperatures in the low to mid-twenties.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/u10q6cgzm#?date=2023-09-04

Maybe will unveil our overseas batter (if we get one) 35 minutes before the start of play, as we did last year with Yadav.

[Paul W]

When I saw 'Middlesex sign Yadav' I thought, 'Essex have already signed him!' but we have spinner Jayant Yadav.

https://www.middlesexccc.com/news/2023/09/middlesex-sign-indian-spinner-jayant-yadav

Mind you, he does have a test match century to his name as well.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/jayant-yadav-447587

[Paul W]

My thoughts on potential line-up.

Robson
Stoneman
De Caires
Eskinazi/Cracknell
Holden
Simpson
Higgins
Yadav
Roland-Jones
Helm
Bamber

Even now I think I would back Eskinazi's experience when it matters over Cracknell, but I think it will be a close call between the two of them.

Bowling wise that gives us four seamers and three (if you count Robson) spin options.

Bamber and Murtagh too similar to play both (unless Helm misses out) and although Murtagh has done nothing wrong in his limited opportunities this year, Bamber is just as good (figures practically identical this year in terms of average) and he is the future, so plays (in my side anyway).

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Well, Davies has got a hundred today, Anderson got another recently and is bowling well and Hollman is a leggie as opposed to another off-spinner capable of scoring runs, so I reckon that's at least sixteen under consideration. Poor Johhno has the thankless task of deciding who to go with.

[Paul W]

Confirmed-

John Simpson REMAINS with Middlesex for 2024

Apparently had a clause in his current contract (which the club neglected to tell us about) that gave him an automatic right to extend until the end of 2024 (seems an odd way to do it).

Confirmed in this interview-

https://www.middlesexccc.com/news/2023/09/interview-with-richard-johnson-alan-coleman-ahead-of-the-season-run-in

Also Alan Coleman says part of the rationale for signing Yadav was it might make counties think twice about preparing surfaces to suit spin if they knew that we were capable of fighting back! I kind of get it, but a bit surprised he said it.

Edit- Having watched the interview a second time, that's not exactly what Alan Coleman said (re Yadav), but it was the gist of it.

[Sillypoint]

I can't believe they signed an offie tbh and that general justification is absolute spin (off the Blair kind). Literally needed solid batting to stay up. Nevertheless it's done now.

Off topic but a successful club needs accountability. That's performance across all areas including on field and off field. I think the latter drives the former.... I hope these decisions are being scrutinised and if they flop then it's recognised. Financial constraints are a convenient scapegoat if you ignore why they exist in the first place.... Hasn't stopped clubs like Brentford, Brighton, etc from being competitive. Culture culture culture

[Paul W]

Squad named-

https://www.middlesexccc.com/news/2023/09/squad-preview-essex-v-middlesex-county-championship

Roland-Jones (c), Bamber, Cracknell, Davies, De Caires, Eskinazi, Helm, Higgins, Holden, Hollman, Robson, Simpson (wk), Stoneman, Yadav.

[Sillypoint]

Who you got? Three spinners in squad. Guess one seamer to be dropped to keep batting solid as can be

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Doubt it, all four quicks.not Josh or Jack. and probably Eski before Crackers, but what do I know?

[adelaide]

Doubt it, all four quicks.not Josh or Jack. and probably Eski before Crackers, but what do I know?

I imagine the squad is meant to cover all bases, from a green top to a bunsen. It is fun to speculate on the make-up of the attack but a bit futile given that none of us has seen the pitch - and, as we know from Taunton experience - pitches can be swapped an hour before the start!

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I imagine the squad is meant to cover all bases, from a green top to a bunsen. It is fun to speculate on the make-up of the attack but a bit futile given that none of us has seen the pitch - and, as we know from Taunton experience - pitches can be swapped an hour before the start!

So three quick and three slow,or 4 quick and two slow,I'd always go with the latter

[Paul W]

After all of that we leave Yadav out!!!!!!

Well that's what NV plays says- but we are playing both Hollman and de Caires (carded to come in at 8 and 9)

Cracknell and Davies both playing. No room for Eskinazi.

Essex won toss and will bat first.

[Paul W]

Visa issues-

https://www.middlesexccc.com/news/2023/09/jayant-yadav-arrival-delayed-to-due-to-visa-issues

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Oh dear, not for the first time. Just last season they failed to sign Malan when they wanted to because they already had too many overseas registered at the time and Mujeeb-ul-Rehman never made it over at all after we'd signed him. Unfortunate or what?

[Paul W]

I'm not sure I'm going to able to cope with four days of Topley on commentary.

Ten minutes and I've already had enough.

[wembleylion]

I have to ask yet again, how on earth does Davies keep getting selected? Am I missing something?

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I have to ask yet again, how on earth does Davies keep getting selected? Am I missing something?

He's only played twice, and with Eski out of form and Robbie White struggling as well, he's an obvious pick especially as he got an impressive century at Radlett the other day. Give the bloke a chance!

[Sillypoint]

Visa issues. Literally been weeks and weeks as Coleman said they were told in July that Malan had to go home. That article reads like a pile of excuses. Mebbe they need to plan ahead like perhaps when nothing was going on throughout August. Same thing last year....

[Sillypoint]

Good start from Essex. Is this Cracknell first red ball match? Hope he goes well. We look to bat very long which is great....

[adelaide]

Good start from Essex. Is this Cracknell first red ball match? Hope he goes well. We look to bat very long which is great....

We have been batting long all season on paper. On grass we have two batting points!

At the moment I'm wondering where the bowling points are going to come from. never mind the batting points, as it looks a superb pitch to bat on ... until Essex bowl on it, no doubt.

No doubt they were trying and failing to secure a batsman during August. It's not easy. Surrey recruited Sardosan from India then didn't pick him (unless he too had a visa problem). An off spinning all rounder may have been all we could get in the end.

[Paul W]

This is already beginning to look ominous.

A used pitch we will have to bat last on.

[Sillypoint]

Still expecting to see a Yadav five for in this match! Haha! It does look flat at the moment. You are right about the lineup. Shame Helm not given the nod as pace might be useful if the ball reverses. The pitch looks very worn

Holden injured his shoulder?

[MIDDLE EXILE]

This pitch aint a road, it's used and turning slowly already. When Harmer, Critchley, and co. get going on this, I see huge problems for our brave lads. The good news is 35 overs before lunch, unheard of.

[Paul W]

....particularly as our 3, 4 and 5 have just three first class hundreds between them.

All three to Holden- two of which were made when he was still a teenager on loan to Northamptonshire.

[Paul W]

Yadav has now got his visa, and is due to arrive on Wednesday (so says The Cricketer).

[Sillypoint]

Well done Josh DeC! Great stuff after lunch. Need the others to step up now

[Sillypoint]

Honestly. Middx fielding is substandard. This is Division 1 of professional cricket. It's truly not good enough. We saw it in the Metro and it's carried on now.... Two shocking drops from Higgins and Stoneman

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Cannot escape the irony of Josh taking seven wickets so far, as he would quite likely not even have played had Yadav been available.

[Sillypoint]

Cannot escape the irony of Josh taking seven wickets so far, as he would quite likely not even have played had Yadav been available.

Yes they've just said that on the stream! Midx brains trust. Been strange to not see spin both ends. Feel like we've given away runs in the field with decisions

[Paul W]

Very well bowled Josh de Caires (with Luke Hollman barely used).

But I'm sure I'm not the only one worrying that anything Josh de Caires can do, Simon Harmer can probably do even better.

Battle!

[Sillypoint]

Yeah couldn't get my head around Hollman not getting a chance to find any rhythm especially if he was originally first choice. Josh had 15 overs before he snagged a wicket then we had Robbo pies and then a few random overs. All a bit strange when double spin was the way. Guessing the offie is better with newer ball

[Jonathan Winsky]

It appears to have been a good day for Josh de Caires, although I am not sure whether it could be said that it was a good day for any other Middlesex players or that it is a realistic possibility that we could get a first innings lead and/or (of the ultimate importance) achievable fourth innings target. For us to achieve a first innings lead, we would have to achieve at least as many batting points in 1 match as we have in 10 preceding matches. Hopefully we will avoid the follow-on, otherwise it could be Essex thinking about getting an achievable fourth innings target (unless they win by an innings), although at least that would have meant that we would not be batting last against Simon Harmer and co.

It has been pointed out on X (https://twitter.com/Stat_dan/status/1698734830245003332) that de Caires has become the third Middlesex bowler since 1976 to record two seven-wicket hauls in the same season, after Ashley Noffke in 2002 and Ollie Rayner did it in the same match in 2013.

I have previously written that prior to the announcement that we had signed Jayant Yadav, I had hopes that Thilan Walallawita could play in the event of us feeling the need to select two spinners, with my preference being that de Caires continued in the side, even if this meant that Luke Hollman could not return (he had not been in our side for our three previous County Championship matches). Accordingly, when I saw that we could not include Yadav, the thought occurred to me that I would have preferred Walallawita to have played instead of Hollman.

It is great to see Joe Cracknell in the side for his second Championship appearance and to see Jack Davies given another match. However, I doubt that Robbie White will feel particularly pleased about falling behind these two players, and Stevie Eskinazi will not be too happy either. Then again, at least Eski gets lots of action in top-level limited-overs cricket (and not just for Middlesex and not just during the English summer), unlike White.

With Essex’s ninth first innings wicket having already fallen and our over rate surely not being an issue, that should put to bed any fears that we will end the match with something like 1 or 2 points.

[Huw Nathan]

Good start from Essex. Is this Cracknell first red ball match? Hope he goes well. We look to bat very long which is great....
I watched Cracknell's first-class debut for Middlesex versus Leicestershire at Merchant Taylors School Ground in 2021. He batted ahead of the tail on that occasion.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

29/4 ... here we go ... again ...

[Pindarus]

Bat long? I would say we bat short. Tail starts at no.1.

[Erskine]

In sixty years of watching Middlesex this is without doubt the worse batting line up and some only club standard .It is only the bowling that gives us any chance but two batting points all season. Is it a record low ?

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

179 ao: Pitiful ...

[Paul W]

Josh de Caires is far too good to be batting as low as 9.

Okay- it would be a big ask to bowl 40 overs in an innings and bat at 4, but he still looks like a front line batter to me. He inspires far more confidence than Jack Davies.

[Pindarus]

I happened upon a scorecard from 2006 (when admittedly we had a dismal bowling lineup) and our top 6 were
Ed Smith
Nick Compton
Owais Shah
Ed Joyce
Jamie Dalrymple
Scott Styris
I would travel two hours to watch them bat. The current lineup I would not walk round the corner to watch.

[adelaide]

Josh de Caires is far too good to be batting as low as 9.

Okay- it would be a big ask to bowl 40 overs in an innings and bat at 4, but he still looks like a front line batter to me. He inspires far more confidence than Jack Davies.

I think we ought to get him to audit the accounts and work the gate as well; he's doing pretty much everything on the pitch.

I agree he has to bat higher. I can see why they want to take the pressure of his batting as his bowling is taking off (and it is really impressive to go in such a short time from a part time spinner to someone capable of bowling most of the day) but I don't think we can afford that luxury.

I know Essex's players know how Chelmsford behaves but it is rather astonishing that our seamers look ineffective then theirs take nine wickets on a pitch which I was expecting Harmer to skittle us on (and he may well do in the second innings). Seemed to me players were playing back too often when they should have been forward and then getting caught on the crease but what do I know?

[wembleylion]

Sadly I have to say Josh is far too good for this club. Suspect he will be on his way soon and I wouldn't blame him.

[Paul W]

Looks like we'll be walking away with just three points.

The truth is there is a big gap in ability between Essex (second) and us (eighth)

[adelaide]

Looks like we'll be walking away with just three points.

The truth is there is a big gap in ability between Essex (second) and us (eighth)

It's the old joke, isn't it? You don't have to outrun the tiger, just the bloke who is with you. Two blokes in this case.

[Jonathan Winsky]

I feared that Middlesex would end up with no batting points and a big first innings deficit, and that is exactly what happened.

We will have to see whether batting last will be as difficult as some supporters fear it will be. Simon Harmer is due to finally take some wickets in this match, although in the unlikely event of that not happening, Jamie Porter and Sam Cook have proven themselves more than capable of taking wickets instead.

It is very heartening to hear that Josh de Caires is highly rated. He should bat higher in the order, although I am not sure who he could bat higher than.

[Sillypoint]

Somebody who is statistical can probably authenticate but the top 5 must've been outscored by bottom 6 for the whole season? Seems a regular feature. Second innings they should just shake it all up and see what happens..

[Paul W]

Somebody who is statistical can probably authenticate but the top 5 must've been outscored by bottom 6 for the whole season? Seems a regular feature. Second innings they should just shake it all up and see what happens..

Here are our averages-

https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/tournament/averages-batting-bowling-by-team/county-championship-division-one-2023-15156?team=1241

The commentators yesterday described Ethan Bamber as a genuine tailender (no Kevin Hand around to say he is the next Brian Lara).

In fact Bambino has a better average this year than Pieter Malan, Jack Davies, Stevie Eskinazi, Robbie White and Joe Cracknell (admittedly the last two have only had two and one innings respectively).

Only good news I can think of is that Topley is otherwise engaged, so won't be in the commentary box today.

[wembleylion]

Pathetic averages given the number of coaches and other experts we have on the payroll. Maybe someone, perhaps Jack (1st class last year 9.75, this year 14.5, List A 13.85), will suddenly come good and score an unbeaten double ton to see us over the line. I really would love to see it.

[wembleylion]

Oh dear out for 1. Anyone still think he should get another chance?

[Mitchy68]

Cracknell and Davies at 3 and 4 is ridiculous. Get Eski back in the team and get Josh batting at 3

[Erskine]

And Holden highest score in 19 innings 55 just not good enough

[Paul W]

42-4 at tea.

I did wonder if Harmer's ball to Cracknell was doing too much, but tempting for the umpire to give it out as Crackers was completely bamboozled by it.

I'm afraid Jack Davies is out of his depth in four day cricket. I guess he's made sufficient one day runs- a top score of 46, a couple of 30's and 20's at a decent strike rate to get a new contract, but it's time he was taken out of the firing line. Options- do we give Robbie White a final chance to prove his worth (he actually had okay seasons in 21 and 22)- go back to Eski, or Josh de Caires at 4, providing an extra bowler (Andersson or Helm) down at 9, or 10.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I wouldn't have Josh as high as three,but possibly Eski,Yadav and Helm or Anderson in for Davies,Hollman and Cracknell or could rest Toby and give Crackers another go,how do you guys feel about that?

[Erskine]

Rest Toby? First game he has played for a month and a half but maybe Murts to the rescue

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Possibly Murts, I'd be surprised if Toby plays all four games though.

[Paul W]

Knowing what a sentimental game cricket is, I suspect Tim Murtagh will play against Warwickshire at Lord's, having announced his retirement a couple of days earlier.

Eski needs to play next week. If everyone is short of runs, you might as well trust your experienced batter to come good.

Max Holden seems to be undropable.

Don't know why.

[Erskine]

Maybe bring in Ramprakash out of retirement
Not sure what he is coaching the batsman but not working

[Pindarus]

Bringing back Eskinazi, whose highest score is 37 and has an average of 13 smacks of desperation. All our batsmen are woeful. Thank heavens we re-recruited Higgins.

[Sillypoint]

Club has gone with youth so you can't drop them all instantly. It's like watching Robson come on because Hollman has gone for a few boundaries. It's daft and can't do much for confidence. Delicate balance though as Davies has been given lots of chances and might just be thankful to be out of the firing line. We can't tell how they train, etc. Josh has done great but it feels by accident not design.... Be interesting who gets contract renewals.

Coach and Coleman selling a vision but if the members aren't buying it then they've gotta go. Finance is a problem but that's not an excuse for being slightly shambolic.... Basics are basics even in the amateurs

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Bringing back Eskinazi, whose highest score is 37 and has an average of 13 smacks of desperation. All our batsmen are woeful. Thank heavens we re-recruited Higgins.

We are desperate, any constructive suggestions?

[Mitchy68]

Good news as Sam Hain called up by England for some white ball rubbish and will miss the game against us at Lords.

[wembleylion]

Suggestions? Not really, maybe merge with Surrey.

[Paul W]

Some enthusiastic umpiring disposes of John Simpson, but as the result is a foregone conclusion, I guess it doesn't matter that much.

[Sillypoint]

Terrible decision that. Understood result not in question but have some standards

[Pindarus]

Can't make any constructive suggestions for this season other than to pray for our survival.
Our senior batsmen have all retrogressed and none of the younger ones have developed at all.
Our overseas recruits for the last 5 years or so have not paid off at all for various reasons and, if we can afford it we need to invest in a big name batsman. We also need a full time batting coach.
We need to recruit at least one other reliable batsman. Playing at Lords used to be a big inducement but now we are rarely there less so.
The bowling is strong and should sustain us for some time.

[Paul W]

Don't forget Leus Du Plooy comes on board next year- plus hopefully an overseas batter.

[Erskine]

Glad I did not go to Chelmsford. I took my 14 year old nephew to the Oval and even though it hurts the experience was excellent as all the staff there were so helpful and even a security member when we walked near the square grabbed my phone and said let me take a photo of the two of you
We have a lot to learn at Lord's about how to treat the supporters and Surrey were a different class cricket wise

[adelaide]

Glad I did not go to Chelmsford. I took my 14 year old nephew to the Oval and even though it hurts the experience was excellent as all the staff there were so helpful and even a security member when we walked near the square grabbed my phone and said let me take a photo of the two of you
We have a lot to learn at Lord's about how to treat the supporters and Surrey were a different class cricket wise

The other crumb of comfort is that Warwickshire were by all accounts no less dismal than us. They have nothing to play for and they won't have Hain. I'm a bit surprised they splashed out on Braithwaite but I suppose they are better off than us (and the city council). All (all!) we have to do is finish above Kent, then win CC1 next year!

I think Lord's stopped being an attraction for batsmen when for whatever reason the pitches became too seam-friendly to assist the career of prospects like Nick Gubbins. Sometimes it seems as if out batting (whoever we select) has failed to gel since then. The early season disasters didn't help much with confidence either but there's an element of chicken and egg about this.

I must say it was very gentlemanly of out players to let the bowlers who had not had much a look in first time round take the wickets today. I can take being bowled out by Harmer on a turning wicket but losing nine out of ten to seamers in the first innings when our almost Test standard seamers (Kevin Hand might say) looked innocuous is difficult to stomach. I don't think the batsmen take all the blame for this debacle (particularly Simmo who seemed to get two very dodgy decisions).

[Jonathan Winsky]

Other than the wickets Josh de Caires took, this was an extremely disappointing match with both bat and ball for Middlesex, and also extremely disappointing for anyone hopeful that I would be presented with material conducive to making constructive comments. About the only mitigation is that Essex are a top-quality side and played in familiar conditions.

I find myself in agreement with the suggestion that if we are to select players with little or no good form behind them, then we would be better off with experienced out-of-form players than inexperienced out-of-form players. We will have to see whether the selection decisions we make for next week's match v Warwickshire at Lord's (in regards to which players from this match retain their place and which changes - if any - we make) result in a better result than which we recorded in this match.

[Paul W]

Even though they've not had great seasons, Robson and Stoneman are obviously four day batters who don't play T20. And Davis and Holden ought to be white ball players who don't play 4 day cricket. Too early to say if Cracknell should also be in that category, and hopefully Eskinazi can also return to being a success in 4 day cricket as well as T20.

But as we are short of money, it isn't really desirable to have so many batters who are either red, or white ball specialists, but aren't good at both. It's like paying for four players to fill two places in the side if everyone is red, or white, but not both.

I don't get management's love affair with Max Holden in red ball cricket. He has just one century for us in about 65 matches (played 77, so I'm deducting the dozen or so he played for Northants, for whom he did make two hundreds). Those stats don't lie. Are we afraid he'll leave if we drop him? Granted, when he nails his cuts, or pulls, or cover drive, he looks a million dollars, and a cut above the others, BUT the only currency that counts is, 'How many runs did you score today?' NOT 'How good did you look making a pretty 30?' so he [I]looks[/better than, say, Robbie White, so in one sense I get it- but how many chancers does he deserve?

Richard Johnson has a habit of totally side lining people. Last year it was Nathan Sowter, because he didn't want to run the risk of Sowter having figures of 4-0-20-5 because then he would have had to keep him. This year he's done the same to Robbie White and Thilan Walallawita. I mean- they must have got the message by now that Johnson doesn't rate them- but they've still got a year left on their contracts. Will RW play against Lancashire? If he does, and makes a score, that will surely muck up Johnson's plans, so we'll have to see if he makes the starting line up. The coach has his favourites- Holden, Hollman, and to some extent Davies. It feels like a stubborn streak that Johnson doesn't want to admit he might have been backing the wrong horses, so he'd sooner stick with them.

[Sillypoint]

The skipper saying they were outplayed for a little bit in the middle of the match is unbelievable. Shows a total lack of respect for fans following the team. Obviously a great bowler and servant but he's not a good skipper. At times it looks so static, devoid of ideas, identikit cut and paste tactics, etc. Even if they stay up they need to change the coach, director of failure, and the skipper. Perhaps Murts can take over the top job.... Then get a good recruiting mind who is outside the current bubble to assess the talent.... Duploy to captain?

[Paul W]

Nick Gubbins-

921 runs average 54.18 3 hundreds, and 4 50's for Hampshire this season.

I'm sure if he was still with us, he would probably have scored half the runs at half the average, with people questioning if he was good enough.

Better coaching? Better home pitches? Easier if you have other equally good players around you?

Don't know- Must be something.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

Can't be bothered to waste any more of my life reading these plaintiff cries for help about our pathetic team ...they're not worth the energy ... and the team is certainly not worthy of my support.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

You're getting ahead of yourself Jonathan, next week's match is at Old Trafford, where there certainly will be changes and where we will be hoping for a different result from today's as well as a much better one.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Can't be bothered to waste any more of my life reading these plaintiff cries for help about our pathetic team ...they're not worth the energy ... and the team is certainly not worthy of my support.

I think we can manage just as well without it Fingers.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I think extreme paranoia has overtaken you PW if you think the coach discriminates against certain individuals, He has a tough job selecting the side and will not always get it right, Neither Robbie nor Thilan has done anything to justify their selection, and where batters such as Pieter and Eski have underperformed they have not been selected, Who do suggest should have played ahead of Max who has had recent success in The Blast and The 100.We had two inexperienced batters playing already. Don't blame the coach, and as for the suggestion he has his favorites, quite ludicrous.

[Jonathan Winsky]

As there were three specific references on this thread about Middlesex’s match v Warwickshire at Lord’s in the hours preceding my post, but nothing about the match v Lancashire at Old Trafford, I made the assumption that the match v Warwickshire was our next match.

As I do not foresee myself attending any of our remaining matches, it makes little difference to me who our opponents are or where the matches are being played, as I am unlikely to have much more than a scorecard view.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

As there were three specific references on this thread about Middlesex’s match v Warwickshire at Lord’s in the hours preceding my post, but nothing about the match v Lancashire at Old Trafford, I made the assumption that the match v Warwickshire was our next match.

As I do not foresee myself attending any of our remaining matches, it makes little difference to me who our opponents are or where the matches are being played, as I am unlikely to have much more than a scorecard view.

But no doubt you'll be sharing your thoughts on the proceedings to us all every night,which we very much look forward to?

[Paul W]

I think extreme paranoia has overtaken you PW if you think the coach discriminates against certain individuals, He has a tough job selecting the side and will not always get it right, Neither Robbie nor Thilan has done anything to justify their selection, and where batters such as Pieter and Eski have underperformed they have not been selected, Who do suggest should have played ahead of Max who has had recent success in The Blast and The 100.We had two inexperienced batters playing already. Don't blame the coach, and as for the suggestion he has his favorites, quite ludicrous.

Once you've decided you don't rate someone, you will shut them out of the side. Richard Johnson isn't the only one who does this- lots of coaches do. Will he pick Robbie White? And if he does, what happens if RW makes, say, 40? He'll then be obliged to stick with RW for a while. We've significantly cut back on our 2nd XI fixture list (counties decide how many 2nd XI championship matches they play, so some play many more than others). The first two were completely rained off, so opportunities to make a case were limited.

Does any other county (they don't!) make announcements about who has not be re-engaged as early as mid-June (Sowter last year) or early July (O'Driscoll, Harris, Greatwood this year). He's letting people go with half the season still remaining- meaning he's already made decisions. I don't have to be Mystic Meg to be able to predict a press release in early July next year that Robbie White and Thilan Walallawita have not been re-engaged, because we're already at the stage where they have been shut out.

I've said in previous posts Eskinazi plays, because if everyone is out of form, you might as well believe the experienced guy is the one most likely to come through (so Eskinazi ahead of Davies) and de Caires in top 5 (instead of Holden) then Andersson, or Helm (or heaven forfend Walallawita) can play as an extra bowler. De Caires would score as many runs (hopefully more) as any of the others in the top 5, and Essex's seam attack did quite well, so maybe Helm would have helped us break through the Essex line-up quicker.

So, yes, he has his favourites (ALL coaches do) but his favourites are the ones who are most letting us down.

Question to ask at the next forum- Has Max Holden got a 'Pick me, or I'm off' contract, as Tom Lace did? I'm beginning to think the answer must be, 'Yes'. Obviously we don't want to loose him, because of his T20 abilities, but that shouldn't mean we're obliged to pick him in a format that he has no obvious aptitude for.

[Paul W]

A further thought-

I realise it might seem like I'm contradicting myself a bit (advocating Eski because of his experience, whilst wanting to ditch Holden for his experience), but Eski has 9 hundreds from 81 games- not great- but considerably better than Holden's 3 hundreds (two of which were a long time ago) from 78 matches.

Middle Exile- Your thoughts and explanations on why Nick Gubbins is having such a brilliant season for Hampshire? Do you think he would have made that many runs this season with a Middlesex shirt on? I don't think he would- so what are we doing wrong?

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Obviously a close call between Eski and Max, and very easy-to-use stats to justify your choice, so how about Eski's championship average this season 13, Max's average of 20, added to Max's recent good form in The 100,I think we can say Max's selection was hardly a major misjudgment. To have played Davies, Cracknell, and White was never realistic, three inexperienced batters in the top six far too risky. We could well have gone with an extra quick bowler as you suggested, but we chose not to quite understandably and I'm afraid to say our pace bowlers don't quite compare with Cook. Porter and Umeed. That Josh as well as bowling 40 overs in an innings can also bat in the top five is a no-starter. Too low at nine agreed but to load so much responsibility on such a young player is not a good idea. Gubbins is an excellent batter as we know and we were sorry to lose him, but I cannot deal in hypotheticals and have no idea how many runs he might have scored for us. What exactly are you suggesting? Conspiracy theories are all very well, but on this occasion, I find it hard to substantiate your theories. Unfortunately, hard descisions have to be made when releasing young players and giving them the opportunity to explore alternatives elsewhere whilst still retaining their services till the season's end I regard as a good thing.

[Paul W]

I'll tell you the problem I have with Max Holden v Robbie White.

Put the two of them next to each other in the nets, and clearly Holden looks the better player.

But, it's runs in the middle that count. Some players (Holden) will get chance after chance after chance, because they look good, whereas White will always look a bit workman like by comparison. Consequently he only ever needs a couple of bad games before he's out the door, whilst Holden continues to be selected. No-one ever says Robson and Stoneman should play T20, so why should Holden feature in the championship? Stirling was always an automatic one day pick for us, but understood he only got in the 4 day side if one or two people were missing. It needs the selectors (and Holden himself) to recognise that with one hundred in about 60 championship appearances he doesn't deserve to be an automatic pick, no matter what.

Now, if White was given a run of 4 or 5 games and didn't get a 50 (not dropped after one game) I'd say, 'Fair enough, he's had his chance and didn't take it'.

The problem of course, is we only have his Ealing form to go on, as there has been no second XI cricket since the end of July (okay one innings v SACA- he made 46) Most counties had a second XI match this week, but (maybe because we want to save money) we've opted to play the bare minimum number of 2nd XI championship matches.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

I'll tell you the problem I have with Max Holden v Robbie White.

Put the two of them next to each other in the nets, and clearly Holden looks the better player.

But, it's runs in the middle that count. Some players (Holden) will get chance after chance after chance, because they look good, whereas White will always look a bit workman like by comparison. Consequently he only ever needs a couple of bad games before he's out the door, whilst Holden continues to be selected. No-one ever says Robson and Stoneman should play T20, so why should Holden feature in the championship? Stirling was always an automatic one day pick for us, but understood he only got in the 4 day side if one or two people were missing. It needs the selectors (and Holden himself) to recognise that with one hundred in about 60 championship appearances he doesn't deserve to be an automatic pick, no matter what.

Now, if White was given a run of 4 or 5 games and didn't get a 50 (not dropped after one game) I'd say, 'Fair enough, he's had his chance and didn't take it'.

The problem of course, is we only have his Ealing form to go on, as there has been no second XI cricket since the end of July (okay one innings v SACA- he made 46) Most counties had a second XI match this week, but (maybe because we want to save money) we've opted to play the bare minimum number of 2nd XI championship matches.


Not only do we languish near the bottom of the table, at high risk of going straight back down to whence we came, but it is absolutely unforgivable that we should have yet another demerit point (out of the total 3 'earned' so far) to make our position even more precarious.

No wonder decent players - most recently Malan and Gubbins - get away as fast as they can to other counties - where almost invariably they become local stars.

Which heads need to roll this time?

[MIDDLE EXILE]

This is about the team, not individuals, Davies and Crackers have had opportunities and perhaps Robbie's been unlucky not to get a gig as well but your argument has little credibility and your desperate pleas for his inclusion have no serious support, suggest you give it up. Max is not an 'automatic' choice at all but he certainly promises more than any others you name. End of!

[Paul W]

Yeah- Promise is the word isn't it.

One solitary hundred in about 60 championship appearances for us.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Remind us again,how many hundreds?

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

This is about the team, not individuals, Davies and Crackers have had opportunities and perhaps Robbie's been unlucky not to get a gig as well but your argument has little credibility and your desperate pleas for his inclusion have no serious support, suggest you give it up. Max is not an 'automatic' choice at all but he certainly promises more than any others you name. End of!


It would be so helpful if everyone would always either show the posting to which they are replying, or at the very least its number. It can be very confusing working who's replying to what.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Responding to you Fingers. Confusion often comes with advancing age, I was replying to PW who had no problem working it out

[adelaide]

The irony is that Holden (and Eskinazi) looked anything but white ball players a few years ago.
In a way the bowling as even more disappointing than the batting, our vaunted seamers not seeming to have much idea how to bowl on that pitch, even after seeing Porter and Cook close up. Ironically some of us were saying that we should have had two spinners going but that wasn't what Essex did, at least not in the first innings. They might have done if Middlesex had got a good start (now there's an oxymoron for you) but we'll never know.

Before cutting our collective wrists, we have won three matches this year and all (all!) we have to do is stay ahead of Kent.

Two questions - someone mentioned Murts retiring. Is that official? Also there was reference to a demerit point - what's that all about?

[Paul W]

Adelaide- It's just my assumption Tim Murtagh will retire, so as we're a sentimental lot, pick him for Lord's game, so he can have a richly deserved standing ovation, and guard of honour.

The demerit point (I assume) was a reference to one point deduction earlier in the season for a slow over rate (can't remember who that was against now).

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

Responding to you Fingers. Confusion often comes with advancing age, I was replying to PW who had no problem working it out



I assume this is a response to #93?

HE might not have done ... but, presumably, sod everyone else? If you want to write privately to others, then feel free to do so. Otherwise, please try and conform to the very well established modus operandi of the MIOLP now that the late MTWD has been admitted to its hallowed portals.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

...

Two questions - someone mentioned Murts retiring. Is that official? Also there was reference to a demerit point - what's that all about?


See the Championship Table in today's MCCC post-match missive.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

Responding to you Fingers. Confusion often comes with advancing age, I was replying to PW who had no problem working it out


Confusion also comes from anonymity - but I am not allowed to go there ...

[Paul W]

Confusion also comes from anonymity - but I am not allowed to go there ...

I've checked four different sites giving the league table, and we remain on 87 points (six ahead of Kent) so the one point off was quite some time ago, and already factored in.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

I've checked four different sites giving the league table, and we remain on 87 points (six ahead of Kent) so the one point off was quite some time ago, and already factored in.


Indeed- but whenever/however it happened, it was this season - and shouldn't have.

If we get demoted by one point, it will be a self-inflicted of the worst possible type and entirely avoidable.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Can I join the great point deduction debate and ask exactly when it happened?

[Paul W]

Not 100% certain- but I think it was the Notts game in April.

Because of rain, they declared on their overnight score, meaning we had no chance to make up the over rate..

[MIDDLE EXILE]

No, L've found it was against Somerset at Lord's when we lost by an innings, so did not get the opportunity to correct the over rate,blame the batters rather than the bowlers, hardly the crime of the century as someone would have us believe and certainly cannot remember any complaints at the time. Can we stick to the main issues, rather than concern ourselves with trivia?

[Paul W]

Well, relegation could easily come down to a point at the end of the season, so not trivial- but already factored in- in the sense it happened a while ago, and not this match.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

But why that particular point when one can cite dozens of occasions where we missed a bonus point or two when we shouldn't have or even missed drawing or winning by a narrow margin, costing us even more points it's just Fingers trying to build a mountain out of a molehill, without even knowing the circumstances which were unavoidable contrary to his claim,

[MIDDLE EXILE]

No not entirely avoidable at all as in the relevant match we never had the opportunity to correct the over rate as we lost by an innings and did not have a second innings to bowl in v Somerset at Lords,

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

No not entirely avoidable at all as in the relevant match we never had the opportunity to correct the over rate as we lost by an innings and did not have a second innings to bowl in v Somerset at Lords,

Talking of molehills, you do talk a mountain of rubbish whoever you are, eg in #104, 06 & 107.

The fact that we failed to survive long enough in a match to recoup a wasted penalty point is quite different from not achieving bonus points during the game. The penalty points are entirely self-inflicted wounds. The bonus points reflect skill and ability. And what on earth does 'already factored in' mean?

As I have no idea as to your identity, I do not know if you attend MCCC AGMs, but I suspect that you probably do. If so, you should be well aware that this has been a constant complaint of mine for more years than either I care to remember or should have needed to be the case. And every time I am assured by either Coaches, Captains, Directors of Cricket or Chief Executives that 'next year will be better'.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Oh, I've heard you alright Fingers, You usually revert to the over rates when you've nothing else to moan about, very tedious.I really believe however you fail to understand what you're complaining about.You were completely unaware of the match or the circumstances in which we incurred the penalty and still failed to grasp the fact that we had no opportunity to put matters right. What bonus points have to do with it I don't comprehend. And as for over rates they certainly have got better as we've worked hard in avoiding being penalised and succeeded this season in reducing them to a solitary point. Well done to all especially as we have a predominately pace attack. Quite laughable that you think it's worth complaining about, Surely you can do better than that

[Sillypoint]

Deleted

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

Oh, I've heard you alright Fingers, You usually revert to the over rates when you've nothing else to moan about, very tedious.I really believe however you fail to understand what you're complaining about.You were completely unaware of the match or the circumstances in which we incurred the penalty and still failed to grasp the fact that we had no opportunity to put matters right. What bonus points have to do with it I don't comprehend. And as for over rates they certainly have got better as we've worked hard in avoiding them and succeeded this season in reducing them to a solitary point. Well done to all especially as we have a predominately pace attack. Quite laughable that you think it's worth complaining about, Surely you can do better than that.


What a wonderful lecture from a world expert in tediousness ... whoever you are!

If we hadn't screwed up in the first place we would not have needed 'the opportunity to put matters right'.

You are clearly the last person to understand how this game works - you prove your inadequacies every time your fingers hit the keyboard.

[Erskine]

I do agree we should not have to keep putting it right in the second innings
Went to the Oval and Warwickshire did not get a chance to bowl a second time against Surrey but were already +4 from the first innings
We should not forget the Arrowgate match against Surrey a few seasons back when our points deduction for us relegated so if we go down by one point entirely out own fault

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Oh dear,a personal attack upon my person. You may not be used to being contradicted Fingers,but believe it I'm always ready to correct you and try and educate you on the way this game works. Obviously a waste of time as your narcissistic personality prevents you from considering the opposing view. I'm very well aware of my many inadequacies, not least trying to engage with the likes of you, but I'll keep on bashing away as long as I'm able.

[adelaide]

Surrey have a five strong seam attack and have not suffered deductions. It must help that they seem to have clear game plans and thus don't spend lots of time faffing about with field changes every other ball, deciding which sacrificial victim will bowl next and so on.

I think there is a case for tweaking the rules a bit to allow a slightly lower over rate in the first innings than in the match as a whole. That is a bit difficult if there is no second innings though but I'm sure Mr Stern of DLS could come up with something.

I haven't done as Fingers suggests and referenced the post to which I am responding because I'm responding to the spirit of the thread as a whole (or at least the chunk on over rates) rather than to one particular post.

If I were to list the posts on this thread which remind me of the death throes of the original MTWD I fear I would get RSI in my fingers. It doesn't encourage people to post.

[Paul W]

Adelaide- I'm sure we've all got posting habits that annoy others. I find posting in bold really irritating, because it hurts my eyes, and it feels like I'm being given a lecture by someone who thinks his opinion is the only one that counts- so I really wish said poster wouldn't do it.

Then fair minded me thinks, 'Maybe the blokes got poor eyesight, so he likes everything to be in bold'- so although it annoys the hell out of me, up until now I haven't mentioned it.

[Sillypoint]

Can people stay on topic. Arguing on the Internet here about stuff beyond cricket is daft. Nobody is gonna change because you write it on the web. They'll be no eureka moment where you are acknowledged as being right. It just makes it hard to read the interesting part of the post

Very frustrating....

Anyway. Handscombe was brought in to get the over rate sorted. They do faff but it's a sign of a poorly drilled unit who are starting to zombie through games as the losses feel familiar. PTSD perhaps

[adelaide]

Adelaide- I'm sure we've all got posting habits that annoy others. I find posting in bold really irritating, because it hurts my eyes, and it feels like I'm being given a lecture by someone who thinks his opinion is the only one that counts- so I really wish said poster wouldn't do it.

Then fair minded me thinks, 'Maybe the blokes got poor eyesight, so he likes everything to be in bold'- so although it annoys the hell out of me, up until now I haven't mentioned it.

IT'S NOT the posting habits, it's tone. It is very odd to see two adults disputing which of them is being the more tedious without any awareness of the tedium it generates for the rest of us!

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

Adelaide- I'm sure we've all got posting habits that annoy others. I find posting in bold really irritating, because it hurts my eyes, and it feels like I'm being given a lecture by someone who thinks his opinion is the only one that counts- so I really wish said poster wouldn't do it.

Then fair minded me thinks, 'Maybe the blokes got poor eyesight, so he likes everything to be in bold'- so although it annoys the hell out of me, up until now I haven't mentioned it.

The 'poor bloke' has mentioned it in the past ... his use of bold print is indeed for his own advantage as he does find it quite difficult to read dense material on screens at all, especially when in plain type. Some of us are getting old (75 next week, but still a kid compared with one or two others) and some of us have pretty poor eyesight - corrected by specs for 70 years.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

IT'S NOT the posting habits, it's tone. It is very odd to see two adults disputing which of them is being the more tedious without any awareness of the tedium it generates for the rest of us!

At least one of them is prepared to identify himself ...

[MIDDLE EXILE]

At least one of them is prepared to identify himself ...

But is he the most tedious? Middlesex set to travel ''oop norf'' tomorrow have yet to announce the traveling party, Expect an early announcement in the morning as to who's on the bus.

[Paul W]

This year all squad announcements have been at 2 pm.

I don't suppose this time will be any different- even though the players will already know, and be on their way.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

My apologies again for the misleading information.I am trying to curb my enthusiasm.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

My apologies again for the misleading information.I am trying to curb my enthusiasm.

Where? Presumably #113?

[MIDDLE EXILE]

No #120. #113 I'm 100% happy about!