T20 v Kent 16th June 2023

[Paul W]

14 man squad named-

https://www.middlesexccc.com/news/2023/06/squad-preview-middlesex-v-kent-vitality-blast

No Thilan Walallawita in the squad, who must be very disappointed he has only had one first team T20 outing so far this summer.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Nathan Fernandes has scored big runs as well as taking wickets for the second XI and for his club in the past week and is the obvious pick as the second spinner in the squad.Thilan was obviously not under consideration for tomorrow and surely would not have expected to be in the squad with no chance of selection.

[Jonathan Winsky]

This match arguably represents Middlesex’s best chance of ensuring that we end our T20 Blast campaign with at least one win, as our two matches against Kent are the only two of our six remaining matches to not be against opposition currently in the top five of our group. You never know, maybe Sunday’s match v Essex at Lord’s will be rained-off (the forecast suggests it is possible that that match will be a no result and therefore suffer a fate which is currently yet to befall any matches around the country in this competition), which would spare us from losing all 14 matches.

It is heartening to hear that Richard Johnson has great belief in our strategy, and has a great desire to give it a lot of backing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnli9HSLCv8

However, I can say from experience that having belief in a strategy and giving it backing through thick and thin and moments of doubt is only ever a good idea if it is a good strategy! I have been known to get myself lost when trying to find a place because I have believed that I was going in the correct direction, only to later realise that I was going the wrong way! Well, I say “I have been known”, but that is only when I have been willing to tell people about it!

It would be nice if Nathan Fernandes could make a return to our side, as my dad saw him on the Underground the other day, and my dad told Fernandes what he (my dad) makes of Stevie Eskinazi’s captaincy! However, Fernandes seems to be a similar type of player to Luke Hollman and Josh de Caires, so I am not sure if he will play.

I am inclined to say that maybe the likes of Thilan Walallawita, Fernandes and other players yet to feature much this season could get some gametime when our 50-over campaign begins. However, as it looks unlikely that we will lose many players to The Hundred other than Eski and Tom Helm, our squad for our 50-over campaign might not be a great deal different to that of our T20 Blast campaign. We will have to see whether that would actually be good news for our hopes of doing well in that competition, as the way our Blast campaign is going means that perhaps it would be better if everyone in and around our 1st XI disappears to The Hundred!

We will have to see whether the attendance tomorrow will be much better than for our two previous T20 matches at Lord’s. The weather and the fact that most people will not have education or work the following day will help the attendance, although the two teams’ form and the distraction of the start of the Ashes will not help.

Kent have named a 14-man squad for this match (https://www.kentcricket.co.uk/news/match-previews-middlesex-gloucestershire/), consisting of Sam Billings (Captain), Daniel Bell-Drummond, Alex Blake, Jordan Cox, Joe Denly, Joey Evison, Nathan Gilchrist, Michael Hogan, Fred Klaassen, Jack Leaning, George Linde (Overseas player), Tawanda Muyeye, Kane Richardson (Overseas player) and Grant Stewart.

[Paul W]

I agree with much of what Richard Johnson says in his interviews (plural, because he says the same thing each time).

However, the bit I do take issue with is when he says we don't have as much experience as the sides that get to finals day.

If my maths is right 11x14=154. so this time next year the average team will have 150 more appearances than the same players have this year. So even if we say a side has 450 more appearances than us, that means 3 years more experience in terms of games played.

However, three years ago those teams would have had as many caps as we do now, but they won't have been losing ten out of fourteen three years ago, because at the same level of experience we have now they were already significantly better than we are now, so I don't buy in to the theory that in two or three years time we will suddenly be excellent just because we will then have the same number of caps that the successful sides of today have. It's a good line to come up with as an excuse, but I don't think it has much validity. After a while 'what you are is what you are' and more games won't make much difference.

[adelaide]

I agree with much of what Richard Johnson says in his interviews (plural, because he says the same thing each time).

However, the bit I do take issue with is when he says we don't have as much experience as the sides that get to finals day.

If my maths is right 11x14=154. so this time next year the average team will have 150 more appearances than the same players have this year. So even if we say a side has 450 more appearances than us, that means 3 years more experience in terms of games played.

However, three years ago those teams would have had as many caps as we do now, but they won't have been losing ten out of fourteen three years ago, because at the same level of experience we have now they were already significantly better than we are now, so I don't buy in to the theory that in two or three years time we will suddenly be excellent just because we will then have the same number of caps that the successful sides of today have. It's a good line to come up with as an excuse, but I don't think it has much validity. After a while 'what you are is what you are' and more games won't make much difference.

You are, I think, assuming the same players at each stage. In reality there is a lot of churn, particularly when it comes to the overseas players. Even if half the team is still there three years on, the half replaced may have been highly experienced.

You're right, of course, that simply gaining more experience doesn't turn you in to a world beater.

[Paul W]

I googled Jason Roy- not something I would normally do- and he has played 321 T20 matches for various teams.

So Surrey's 'experience' could go up, or down by as many as 321 matches if Roy is unavailable and a new player makes their debut in his place. But of course Surrey would have ten other players with experience, who knew how to win, so they can cope without Roy without any great difficulty.

So, as you say 'matches played' doesn't really cut it as an excuse. Most of our batters will never get anywhere near 321 appearances, because you have to play for England, and various franchises around the world to get that many games under your belt. But our players aren't good enough for the IPL to be interested, so we'll never have as much experience as the better sides, because our lot (mostly) play a maximum of 14 games a year.

[Paul W]

Kent won the toss and have elected to bat first.

Simpson restored as keeper, but Davies keeps his place in the side.

According to the scorecard, Hollman will open with Eskinazi.

We shall see!

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Malan unfit,Kent on course for 200 plus.

[Paul W]

Kent 228-3 off 22.2 overs (that's if you include wides and no balls)

Our 0% record of success is looking safe at half time.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

The usual sarcasm from our resident doomsayer.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

The usual sarcasm from our resident doomsayer.

I read it as logical forecast, not sarcasm ... and he was right ...

[Paul W]

Arguably the wides and no balls were the difference. Kent only bowled three extra deliveries- one wide and two no balls, against our fourteen extra deliveries.

I think 228 has only been overtaken three or four times in our domestic T20, so although we got close, statistically it was always going to be a tall order. We did well to get as close as we did, courtesy of an excellent innings from Max Holden.

Not sure about the Hogan caught and bowled to remove Higgins. It didn't look right in real time, so I'm not surprised he stood his ground. Good as the live streams are, the quality wasn't clear enough to tell one way, or the other, so I'm not saying it wasn't out- just not sure.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

228 has NEVER been chased successfully in the whole history of The T20 Blast,so best to check your facts before getting it wrong again mate. Great effort of course by 'Slapsy'Maxi and congrats to him, but once more it was undisciplined bowling that was our downfall

[Paul W]

Well, if it's never been chased, why did you think this time would be any different?

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I read it as logical forecast, not sarcasm ... and he was right ...

Considering no team in the whole history of The T20 Blast has EVER chased so many to win, it was rather stating the obvious than forecasting defeat.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I didn't and hardly needed you to tell me so!

[Paul W]

I had this game in mind-

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/vitality-blast-2019-1167126/somerset-vs-middlesex-south-group-1167248/full-scorecard

But you're right. We were 'only' chasing 226- not 228.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

Considering no team in the whole history of The T20 Blast has EVER chased so many to win, it was rather stating the obvious than forecasting defeat.


All records are there to be broken. Still not sarcasm, in my book at least.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

228 has NEVER been chased successfully in the whole history of The T20 Blast,so best to check your facts before getting it wrong again mate. Great effort of course by 'Slapsy'Maxi and congrats to him, but once more it was undisciplined bowling that was our downfall


I wonder if it was the display of discourtesy and disrespect to fellow Members/contributors - eg "... so best to check your facts before getting it wrong again mate..." that led to the demise of the original MTWD?

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Misinformation, ignorant speculation, lack of administration, and false accusations were some of the things that caused the demise of MTWD as well as downright lies I was merely correcting one of the worst offenders from that place in language he understands. Let's hope he'll do a bit more research in the future rather than guesswork. I'm reassured that you see yourself as the arbiter of good manners on here Fingers and I'll do my best to behave in the future, There iis history between myself and PW which I'm sure he'd be happy to fill you in on, if that interested.

[Jonathan Winsky]

I would like to think that if Middlesex could keep on playing Twenty20 cricket between now and the end of September, we would win a match in this format at some point, as it looks like a win is coming. However, as I have previously written, this match seemed to represent our best chance of winning on the basis of our opponents and having to play our final four matches away, so that makes me reconsider any hope I have of us winning a T20 match any time soon.

When the first 14 balls of Kent’s innings resulted in 9 dot balls and only 1 boundary, it looked like it would be a low-scoring match (although the three wins in wides in that time admittedly proved a portent of what was to come). And then Daniel Bell-Drummond changed his bat, which also changed the run rate! When we lost 2 wickets in the first 3 overs of our reply, it looked like we would get closer to the 138 needed to prove my prediction of 366 runs in the match correct than to the 229 runs needed to win.

I am glad that Max Holden scored his fourth century for Middlesex, of which two have now come in this format. Hopefully, this will be the springboard to him scoring some runs in the County Championship, which is a format in which I am certain that he would like to improve his record.

As Extras played a key role in ensuring that this match went the way of Kent, I have to say that the result is karma for Middlesex’s failure to heed the suggestion that I repeatedly made to grant Extras a benefit year for everything that they (I am not sure which pronouns Extras uses) have done for our batting over the years. Instead, Extras chose to take revenge and provide what later proved to be important help for Kent’s batting.

Although I attended the match, I had to read the ECB Reporters Network report and rewind the stream to be certain about why three bowlers did not complete an over. It looked like Blake Cullen pulled a hamstring or something like that while our fielders let Kent run a three. Tom Helm was removed from the attack for bowling two waist-high no-balls in the innings (I thought it was only an offence to do it twice in the same over). I looked like it would be our night when our nemesis Grant Stewart suffered the fate of Helm after completing only three legitimate deliveries. Some people may find this paragraph informative, while the opposite will presumably be true for those who had the benefit of Kevin Hand’s wisdom on commentary. If you think Kevin Hand lacks wisdom, at least he probably knew a bit more about cricket than the ground announcer, who I don’t recall explaining those mid-over bowling changes, and in fact was often slow in announcing the standard bowling changes. And he referred to the Nursery End as the Media Centre End, which is sacrilegious!

We will have to see whether Cullen and/or Pieter Malan will be fit for Sunday’s match v Essex at Lord’s. Or indeed whether the weather will enable Essex to win.

[Paul W]

Misinformation, ignorant speculation, lack of administration, and false accusations were some of the things that caused the demise of MTWD as well as downright lies I was merely correcting one of the worst offenders from that place in language he understands. Let's hope he'll do a bit more research in the future rather than guesswork. I'm reassured that you see yourself as the arbiter of good manners on here Fingers and I'll do my best to behave in the future, There iis history between myself and PW which I'm sure he'd be happy to fill you in on, if that interested.

I don't think I've been rude to anyone on this forum at any stage. I'll let others decide if the same applies to you.

You have been wrong a couple of times in the last few weeks (telling me I was wrong when I said Sky would live stream the Surrey game free of charge which they did). Did I post any triumphant comment that I was right and you were wring. No I didn't. You posted the parent of a player had had a post removed by the club on Facebook. It wasn't. I had to correct you, but didn't feel the need to tell you that you needed to check your facts first.

It was actually your comments elsewhere that we were 'on course for victory' that made me think it might have been done a couple of times in the past. It's certainly been passed in international T20. https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/12843080/south-africa-chase-t20-record-259-to-win-west-indies-run-fest-at-centurion

Surrey chased 221 to beat us at The Oval https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/vitality-blast-2018-1127447/surrey-vs-middlesex-south-group-1127523/full-scorecard in 2018

Notts have chased 223 to beat Yorkshire-
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/natwest-t20-blast-2017-1068050/nottinghamshire-vs-yorkshire-north-group-1068368/full-scorecard

Leicestershire have chased 218 at Northampton-

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/vitality-blast-2018-1127447/northamptonshire-vs-leicestershire-north-group-1127449/full-scorecard

Sussex chased 225 against Essex as early as 2014-
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/natwest-t20-blast-2014-691693/essex-vs-sussex-south-division-693257/full-scorecard

but of course, posting a quick reply immediately after the conclusion of the match I didn't have the time to check all that, so went with a gut feeling it had probably been done before- plenty of examples of teams posting more than 228 in the first innings- but all resulted in victories.

I think a chap with MPD (multiple personality disorder) was the main problem on the old MTWD.

I could never understand why anyone would gain satisfaction in trying to sabotage a forum in that way, but I guess it takes all sorts.

[John (Fingers) Fingleton]

I don't think I've been rude to anyone on this forum at any stage. I'll let others decide if the same applies to you.

You have been wrong a couple of times in the last few weeks (telling me I was wrong when I said Sky would live stream the Surrey game free of charge which they did). Did I post any triumphant comment that I was right and you were wring. No I didn't. You posted the parent of a player had had a post removed by the club on Facebook. It wasn't. I had to correct you, but didn't feel the need to tell you that you needed to check your facts first.

It was actually your comments elsewhere that we were 'on course for victory' that made me think it might have been done a couple of times in the past. It's certainly been passed in international T20. https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/12843080/south-africa-chase-t20-record-259-to-win-west-indies-run-fest-at-centurion

Surrey chased 221 to beat us at The Oval https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/vitality-blast-2018-1127447/surrey-vs-middlesex-south-group-1127523/full-scorecard in 2018

Notts have chased 223 to beat Yorkshire-
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/natwest-t20-blast-2017-1068050/nottinghamshire-vs-yorkshire-north-group-1068368/full-scorecard

Leicestershire have chased 218 at Northampton-

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/vitality-blast-2018-1127447/northamptonshire-vs-leicestershire-north-group-1127449/full-scorecard

Sussex chased 225 against Essex as early as 2014-
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/natwest-t20-blast-2014-691693/essex-vs-sussex-south-division-693257/full-scorecard

but of course, posting a quick reply immediately after the conclusion of the match I didn't have the time to check all that, so went with a gut feeling it had probably been done before- plenty of examples of teams posting more than 228 in the first innings- but all resulted in victories.

I think a chap with MPD (multiple personality disorder) was the main problem on the old MTWD.

I could never understand why anyone would gain satisfaction in trying to sabotage a forum in that way, but I guess it takes all sorts.


#10: "The usual sarcasm from our resident doomsayer."


I rest my case.

[adelaide]

There iis history between myself and PW which I'm sure he'd be happy to fill you in on, if that interested.

If you don't learnt from history it repeats itself, so the life expectancy of this area of the site may not be great. I doubt I will stick around long if it carries on like this.

Even the live stream was in a sulk last night, with the replays so jerky as to make them almost unwatchable.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Ha! Ha!, Chunks you have been working hard, pity you didn't do so before resorting to guesswork and your gut feeling. Yes, you got it wrong and mislead posters. Sure I've got it wrong on occasions too and am happy to be corrected. Your paranoia is overwhelming if you suggest attempted sabotage on here, just trying to help you get your facts straight. True I've posted previously under various pseudonyms but that hardly proves I'm suffering from any mental disorder.Unfortunately, you have in the past chosen to inform us of your own various medical conditions which no doubt have contributed to your obsessive postings on MTWD. I've not posted there for many years as you well know so perhaps others will decide who was 'The Main problem' and who led to its demise.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Apologies Adelaide if I put you off at all, in retrospect, I was perhaps a bit harsh on our friend from The Highlands.A symptom no doubt of my own insecurity.Do stay as one of the few voices of reason and informative comment. I stand suitably admonished

[Paul W]

I think it's fairly obvious really.

By all means correct someone if they have got something wrong- but any personal add on insults are completely unnecessary. All you have to do is ask yourself, 'How would I feel if someone replied to one of my posts like that?' so quite clearly designed to needle and cause upset.

Like I said on another thread, I intend to mostly let it wash over me.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

What insult? You may not like my tone, which you should be accustomed to it by now, never thought you were such a sensitive soul. I'd be amused if someone responded to me in a similar fashion.Get over it, you're becoming tedious.

[James Mitchell]

Before the MTWD section was set up, we have firmly stuck to the Rule that, although it's fine to argue with each other as strongly as you wish, it's not acceptable for the exchanges to become personal. 'Play the ball, not the man'.

If any two or more members want to exchange insults, then please do so by email - or if you prefer you can use the Board's Private Messaging section. (https://mccolp.net/forum/private.php)

I will ban any member who persists in posting insults, because it really does put off other members. Having said that, I really do NOT want to take any action against either Middle Exile or Paul W, as they have both made useful and interesting contributions to the debates here. So, please, if you want to continue this exchange, please do so in private. Thanks!

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I have no wish to continue this exchange at all.I apologize if I have inadvertently transgressed any rules and undertake to curb my enthusiasm in future.