Surrey v Middlesex (11 May 2023 - 14 May 2023)

[James Mitchell]

Bit early I suppose - but this could be a title decider!

Sorry all, but on this occasion, I am an opposition supporter.

If the weather is kind, this could be an excellent match.

[Paul Graber]

I suspect I’m with most Middlesex supporters here in being more concerned about avoiding relegation than challenging for the title, a couple of wins notwithstanding.

[David Uren]

I suspect I’m with most Middlesex supporters here in being more concerned about avoiding relegation than challenging for the title, a couple of wins notwithstanding.

I’m in the same boat as you, Paul

[Barmy Kev]

As an ardent Middlesex fan , I'm praying for snow for all four days.

[John Fitzgerald]

Agree with Paul and David but I cling to the fact that in most years 3 wins are enough to stay up and we already have two.

I intend to be at the Gasworks for at least one day.

[Paul Graber]

Agree with Paul and David but I cling to the fact that in most years 3 wins are enough to stay up and we already have two.


Perhaps predicated on achieving more than one batting bonus point per season.

[John Fitzgerald]

Perhaps predicated on achieving more than one batting bonus point per season.

The only excuse is that we did not go abroad for practice and all our English practice games were rain affected. The tent at Merchant Taylors is no substitute for outdoor practice.

[Paul W]

The only problem with that is I don't think Surrey went abroad either (?) as I saw footage of them in March practising in a marquee at The Oval.

Anyway, after just six points from the first two games I was fearing the worst. Once everyone has caught up and played 4 games each (Sunday evening) we'll have a better idea of where we are.

I suspect in a few days time we will have slipped to 7th, or 8th place, so still flirting with the relegation zone.

[Paul W]

All teams have now played four games, and we are 5th-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/table

[Peter Brown]

I had planned to be there on Friday, supporting the visitors of course, but there appears to be another train strike!

[James Mitchell]

I shall be there on Friday, if anyone I don't yet know wants to meet up and say hello!

[Barmy Kev]

I'm considering Friday. Would be happy to meet your acquaintance James

[James Mitchell]

I'm considering Friday. Would be happy to meet your acquaintance JamesI may not have my acquaintance with me, but you can make mine!

[Barmy Kev]

Ok. I will fratenise with the enemy. Just need a visa to travel South of the River?

[James Mitchell]

Ok. I will fratenise with the enemy. Just need a visa to travel South of the River?No - but it would help if you did not wash on the morning of your visit. If you don't understand the reference, you might like to ask Fingers, who will explain!:o

[Paul W]

I was thinking of changing my username to 'The Great Unwashed'

:D

[James Mitchell]

I was thinking of changing my username to 'The Great Unwashed'

:D

For those who don't know the story (and the reason why the official MCC forum was shut down and this one created in its place):

https://www.mccolp.net/misc/unwashed.jpg

[VipinKhanna]

I was there for that game & never saw another T20 at Lords after that!

[Peter H]

For those who don't know the story (and the reason why the official MCC forum was shut down and this one created in its place):


I've always been with Voltaire when it comes to freedom of speech, although I wonder if Voltaire would have changed his mind had he been in the Pavilion that for that match! ;)

[Paul W]

Apparently the ECB have insisted Ollie Pope is rested from this match.

Surrey supporters not happy.

[Jonathan Winsky]

As Surrey are top and entered the season expected to challenge for a third County Championship title since 2018, it would be a great scalp if Middlesex could make it three successive wins, something which would also be a remarkable turnaround after we lost our first two matches.

It is just as well that Surrey are unable to call upon Ollie Pope, as their squad (https://www.kiaoval.com/surrey-vs-middlesex-full-preview/) seems strong, consisting of Rory Burns, Sean Abbott, Gus Atkinson, Jordan Clark, Ben Foakes, Will Jacks, Tom Lawes, Ryan Patel, Kemar Roach, Dom Sibley, Jamie Smith, Cameron Steel and Dan Worrall.

Our fast bowlers are looking like they are entering this match in good form and without having done an excessive amount of bowling. As we didn’t play last week and only have next week’s match v Somerset at Lord’s before playing mainly Twenty20 matches in the subsequent weeks, I wouldn’t have thought there will be much need for us to rest our bowlers.

Hopefully our batters will add to the one bonus point they have so far earned us this season.

It is a shame that much of the County Championship takes place before I feel immersed in the season. If I felt immersed, maybe I would have made plans to attend a day or two at the weekend. Hopefully, I will be able to attend some cricket at Lord’s the following weekend.

[Paul W]

166-1 to 209 all out.

I'm trying to believe TRJ, Murts and Bambino will do to them what they have just done to us.

Surrey have 13 overs to survive tonight.

[James Mitchell]

166-1 to 209 all out.

I'm trying to believe TRJ, Murts and Bambino will do to them what they have just done to us.

Surrey have 13 overs to survive tonight.That's it for tonight. I'll be there tomorrow, although the weather looks dire. Still, I am looking forward to a nice lunch in the members dining room and hopefully meeting a few of you Middlesex nutters!

Surrey will resume on 21-0 - trail by 188

[Paul W]

Max Holden will be under pressure to make a score in his second innings.

Currently averaging 14.75 after today.

Although he was no more culpable than the others, for him it is a bit of a continuing theme.

It's great to show belief and faith in someone, but you also have to be fair to the likes of White, Davies and De Caires.

White in particular isn't considered a T20 player- so if he isn't considered a 4 day player either- then what is his future?

Max an automatic pick in white ball, but he might have to accept that having only ever scored one first class century for us he just isn't an automatic red ball player.

But would he accept that, or want to move on if we left him out?

I mean- Robson, Stoneman and White are seldom, if ever selected for T20, and no-one ever suggests that is wrong- and so far Cracknell only considered for white ball.

Nothing wrong in being pigeon-holed as white, or red only- but would Max accept that verdict?

[James Mitchell]

It would be a bit surprising if Surrey don't manage to build a decent lead in reply, especially if there is little play tomorrow as Saturday and Sunday look to be set fair. I do hope to see some play tomorrow.

[Jonathan Winsky]

Max Holden was presumably going well (surviving more balls than all bar Sam Robson and Pieter Malan), until I unfortunately seemed to put a curse on, when he was out within a second of me switching on Sky Sports Cricket. Indeed, the day’s play was going well for Middlesex and badly in regards to wickets taken and economy for Dan Worrall for most of the time I was at work. If only the remainder of the day followed those patterns.

Hopefully our bowlers can keep up their habit of doing one of the many things our batters very much struggle to do, which is earn us bonus points, preferably well before the 110 over cut-off point.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Incredible turnaround today, Robbo and Mala in total control and The Middle looking set for a big total, but then things changed dramatically as Roach and Worralll suddenly turned into worldbeaters, Their bounce and movement proved too much for the lower and middles order who capitulated in quick succession. We may be grateful for some weather intervention tomorrow to keep us in the match.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

I rather think 'Fingers' was referring to 'The great unwashed' as mostly those who had traveled from across the river and far more used to the relaxed atmosphere at their home ground. The suggestion that Middlesex members would behave in an unseemly manner is of course quite outrageous.

[Paul W]

Weather forecast doesn't look so bad after about 1 pm (unless 'grey cloud' is dark enough to cause bad light issues, even with floodlights).

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcpuvk7px#?date=2023-05-12

I don't like being saved by bad weather anymore than I like being denied victory by bad weather.

Anyway, there's more than enough time to ensure a victory for one side or the other (I certainly haven't given up hope yet).

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Looking a bit brighter now,suggest lunch at the usual time and back on shortly after that i.e. 1.50 to 2.30 hopefully.

[adelaide]

I think the batsmen must have got collective vertigo yesterday. Ironically the lower order, which has bailed the top order out several times this season, did the deck of cards act this time.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Looking a bit brighter now,suggest lunch at the usual time and back on shortly after that i.e. 1.50 to 2.30 hopefully.

1.50 restart it is.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Increasingly dark here,doubt we'll see much more after tea.

[James Mitchell]

A pleasant lunch today and some good cricket from Surrey - albeit in unseasonably cold weather. Lunch in the members' dining room followed by some chilly cricket in the Galadari Stand.

https://www.mccolp.net/misc/oval1.jpg

Me (far side of table, with my friends Crispin and Andrew)

https://www.mccolp.net/misc/oval2.jpg

[John Hegarty]

I planned to go sarf and watched on Sky instead Looked at the forecast and whimped out. The restaurant looks great. A shame we have nothing informal at Lord's or perhaps this is comparable to Pelham's

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[John Hegarty]

Very much enjoying the contributions from passionate Middlesex supporters. Well done guys. So pleased that MTWD voice continues.

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[James Mitchell]

I planned to go sarf and watched on Sky instead Looked at the forecast and whimped out. The restaurant looks great. A shame we have nothing informal at Lord's or perhaps this is comparable to Pelham's

Sent from my IN2023 using TapatalkI agree. It was a three course menu, with plenty of choice and excellent and well presented food. The cost of £30 each is in my view very good value for money.


Very much enjoying the contributions from passionate Middlesex supporters. Well done guys. So pleased that MTWD voice continues.

Absolutely. In time, I hope we can attract more Middlesex members to the Forum.

[Jonathan Winsky]

When Surrey’s first innings started, I was hopeful that they would be several wickets down before they got into the lead.

When Middlesex’s second innings eventually starts, I will be fearful that we will be several wickets down before we regain the lead and are in a position to think about trying to set Surrey a challenging target. It makes it very important that we keep Surrey’s first innings lead down.

It seems like arrows and maybe bad light are about the only threats to there being no further stoppages in this match, so there should be a result, although I am not too sure whether the result would be in Middlesex’s favour. Oh well, the County Championship points system tends to favour teams who deal in wins and defeats rather than those who mainly deal in draws.

[John Hegarty]

They need a bow of burning gold

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[Paul W]

A wicket for Murts!

Looks like I'm stuck listening to Kevin Hand and Mark Church.

No live stream because Sky are 'covering it'.

Except they're not.

A live IPL match that holds no interest for me whatsoever.

I press the red button as it says 'match choice' and just blank screen.

So, I'm paying Sky about 80 quid a month, and I can't get it.

With no live stream either it means I've got worse coverage than normal.

[Max Sawyer]

They need a bow of burning gold

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Sounds more like they will get, "O, clouds, unfold", bringing rain rather than a chariot.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

The coverage is not on SKY SPORTS CRICKET but on an alternative SKY channel,try SKY SPORTS ARENA

[Paul W]

Ah- Thank you, M E.

Found it now on Sky 408.

Pity they had the 'press red' option on 404, as when that didn't work I assumed I was done for!

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Always happy to help Chunks!

[Andrew]

Just switched on Sky for a watch and pleased to see what looks like quite a big crowd in today. Certainly by county standards, anyway.

[Paul W]

Let's hope Max can fully capitalise on his bit of luck when an easy slip catch was dropped.

Compensation for Rocky's 'dismissal' when the ball deviated after hitting something on the pitch causing a huge puff o dust, but bat nowhere near the ball. Any sound would have been bat hitting the ground and not the ball.

Burns (who looks a prat with his long hair) trying to pressurise the umpires to stay out there, and continuing to 'discuss' the situation with the umpires for some time.

Hope Malan (knee trouble) fit to bat tomorrow. Presumably he is now a doubt for next game v Somerset.

[Jonathan Winsky]

Middlesex had to settle for Surrey being four wickets down when Surrey overtook our first innings score. We could do with being no more than four wickets down when (well, I hope it will be a case of when and not if) we take the lead.

We could also do with scoring some runs down the order like Surrey did. Hopefully it will not prove costly that Surrey were able to take their lead from 20 at the fall of their fifth wicket to 171.

As we began our second innings with it being possible that we could lose by an innings, at least we are now in sight of building a target to set Surrey. If we can get tomorrow off to a good start, then that will give us some confidence. However, a bad start would obviously suck some confidence.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Let's hope Max can fully capitalise on his bit of luck when an easy slip catch was dropped.

Compensation for Rocky's 'dismissal' when the ball deviated after hitting something on the pitch causing a huge puff o dust, but bat nowhere near the ball. Any sound would have been bat hitting the ground and not the ball.

Burns (who looks a prat with his long hair) trying to pressurise the umpires to stay out there, and continuing to 'discuss' the situation with the umpires for some time.

Hope Malan (knee trouble) fit to bat tomorrow. Presumably he is now a doubt for next game v Somerset.
Most rude and disrespectful to criticize Burns for his perfectly presentable appearance, and as for pressurizing the umpires, it was they who were at fault for not advising Burns he had the option of bowling the slower bowlers rather than going straight off. Most sporting of Burns to agree to stay out and give us all more cricket. Rocky may have been unlucky, but Eski was fortunate to survive a clear 'bad and pad catch to Folkes.We both passionately wish for a successful Middlesex performance but to resort to biased and unfair critiscism is most unacceptable.

[adelaide]

it was they who were at fault for not advising Burns he had the option of bowling the slower bowlers rather than going straight off. Most sporting of Burns to agree to stay out and give us all more cricket.

Now there's something I don't get. On the one hand, once a reading is taken in the match and play is suspended, that sets the benchmark for the rest of the match. Where in the regulations does it say that the bowling speed at the time of the first and subsequent readings can get taken into account? It may be commonsense but cricket regs don't usually do commonsense.

As it happens, the extra overs by Jacks and Patel just enabled Middlesex to reduce the deficit by a fair few runs. There's always hope and maybe the sun will actually appear tomorrow.

[Paul W]

Having the umpires decide is supposed to remove any unfairness.

In the past (up to a point when it really was unplayable) the batting side could decide if they wanted to play on.

What is now happening is it is the bowling side that gets to decide if we carry on- bowl spin if they want to carry on- threaten to bowl a quick if they want to go off.

So one side is still getting to decide if we stay on, or go off- it's just that these days it's the bowling side.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

It's a misconception perpetrated by the commentators usually that the first reading is sacrosanct and must be adhered to come what may, The umpires have the discretion to take all the circumstances into account before coming off and most significantly the safety of the players,

[Paul W]

The ever optimistic Kevin Hand talking about batting half the day and setting Surrey a target of 140 they might find difficult.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhgR36sXwe4&t=204s

Pitch doesn't seem to have deteriorated much, if at all.

Baring in mind we found 240 in 40 overs doable against Notts, I think it's more a case of trying to bat until after tea to save the game (KH does suggest that as well)

[James Mitchell]

The Sun is shining, and we can look forward to an excellent day's cricket today at the Oval. Surrey are obviously strong favourites to win this match, but any result is still possible.

[adelaide]

The ever optimistic Kevin Hand talking about batting half the day and setting Surrey a target of 140 they might find difficult.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhgR36sXwe4&t=204s

Pitch doesn't seem to have deteriorated much, if at all.

Baring in mind we found 240 in 40 overs doable against Notts, I think it's more a case of trying to bat until after tea to save the game (KH does suggest that as well)

Kevin's optimism sometimes reminds me of that of the knight in Monty Python film.

[Paul W]

Middle currently 186-7. A lead of 15.

Kevin Hand-

'If Middlesex can just get that lead up to 30, or 40, and if Toby Roland-Jones can take a hat trick with the first three deliveries of the Surrey innings, and then Tim Murtagh chips in with a couple from the other end, then who knows what might happen'.

[Jonathan Winsky]

Today has certainly not off to the good start that Middlesex needed (it was bad enough that we had lost three wickets today in the period prior to me beginning this sentence, so losing a fourth while I was writing this sentence is not going to advance our cause).

Hopefully we will give ourselves enough runs to defend to at least have taken a wicket or two before the match ends.

With Pieter Malan being in discomfort (or at least I think he was, as I didn’t really concentrate on his short innings), it would be a surprise if our record of having made no changes to our batting department this season remains intact for the match v Somerset at Lord’s. At least it means that Robbie White is set to get another opportunity to add to a tally of first-class centuries for Middlesex that is double that of Max Holden, who at least got runs to his name in this innings.

[MIDDLE EXILE]

'We don't need to talk about Kevin'

[Paul W]

sky commentators making the fair observation that our attack is very samey.

Good as TRJ, Higgo, Murts and Bambino are, none are express pace. If the ball is moving around a bit then fine-otherwise it's going to be bloomin' hard work.

And just one batting point from 5 matches....

I suppose we at least stuck at it against a side that are better than us.

Onwards to next week and Somerset.

[John Assirati]

Just back from the Oval (sigh). Middlesex lost away, having lost the toss, to probably the strongest side in the Championship. I'm fairly confident that relegation will be avoided.

[John Fitzgerald]

sky commentators making the fair observation that our attack is very samey.

Good as TRJ, Higgo, Murts and Bambino are, none are express pace. If the ball is moving around a bit then fine-otherwise it's going to be bloomin' hard work.

And just one batting point from 5 matches....

I suppose we at least stuck at it against a side that are better than us.

Onwards to next week and Somerset.

But we have the same number of bowling points (15) as all the top counties so we are taking wickets in the first 110 overs

It's the one batting point that is killing us.

We have changed the bowling around but the batting has remained unchanged.

Onwards and upwards

[MIDDLE EXILE]

Bowling points are comparatively easy to acquire, nine first-innings wickets in 110 overs happen in aprox.90% of cases, whilst batting points are far more difficult to win, score 250 before you get any. Bonus points were introduced to increase the spectator's interest in the first innings, but in effect serve little purpose and often distract sides from the ultimate aim of victory. Dispensing with them entirely and awarding points only for wins and draws would lead to more positive and attacking cricket and make little or no difference to final finishing positions.

[Paul W]

I suppose you could make a case for restricting bowling points to just the first 50, or 60 overs of the innings- thus giving greater reward to teams who really do scythe through the opposition batting line up, rather than picking up their 9th wicket in about the 108th over, just because the opposition are chasing another batting point. But keep batting points up to 110 overs.

The problem with that, I suppose, is even more bowler friendly tracks would be prepared.

Trouble with no bonus points is it increases the likelihood of a tie for top place, or relegation at the end of the season, and with weather taking time out of many games there needs to be recognition of which team was considered to be on top after the first innings.